*** Official IOWA STATE Vs #2 Baylor Game(Day) Thread ***

[EarthIsMan]

That’s cute that you want to use the Big12 tournament ads measure of success. We’re on our way to a worse finish than 2017-18, open your eyes. That’s not a program that’s on an upward trajectory. Good programs don’t have down years. Down years for good programs are getting in the tournament as a 10 seed.

Objectively, I would say ISU has plateaued under Prohm following the success that the Hoiberg era provided. BUT not all success is linear and sometimes continuity is valuable as well. My main issue is with “fans” acting like the sky is falling given the successes of 2019, and it is too early to entirely give up on 2020 season as well. The recruiting class for next year provides some promise as well. Hasty overreaction and unrealistic expectations is probably what frustrates me most about the vocal minority of ISU fans calling for Prohm’s ouster.

 

[IASTATE07]

What “weird angles” are you talking about? I’ve pointed out facts. Those aren’t angles. I agree that complaining doesn’t do anything. This is a forum for Cyclone fans to discuss their opinions, and I’m sorry you don’t like my opinions on how I view the programs direction.

Aside from saying Hoiberg turned down the Warriors job offer, I would try to block out Saturday's conversations too. Some terrible takes on success from you.

 

[jcisuclones]

Aside from saying Hoiberg turned down the Warriors job offer, I would try to block out Saturday's conversations too. Some terrible takes on success from you.

what are you talking about?

 

[Halincandenza]

Guys competed but just aren’t good enough and was again confused by Prohm’s lineups. On to the next.

 

[CyTwins]

Guys competed but just aren’t good enough and was again confused by Prohm’s lineups. On to the next.

I thought the game plan out of the gate was great but Baylor is the worst possible matchup for us. Any team that can defend the PnR and rebound like that is going to kill us

 

[Statefan10]

I thought the game plan out of the gate was great but Baylor is the worst possible matchup for us. Any team that can defend the PnR and rebound like that is going to kill us

Throw in the fact that Halliburton had his worst game in a long long time, maybe ever when considering his minutes played. Not blaming him or anything because he's by far our best player and he's not going to be able to play amazing every single game. Baylor was taking away every PnR and driving opportunity for him and was forcing him to make deep outside shots, which he wasn't.

 

[rochclone]

I thought the game plan out of the gate was great but Baylor is the worst possible matchup for us. Any team that can defend the PnR and rebound like that is going to kill us

Agreed. Baylor/Drew continues to be a bad matchup for us. I think the game on Saturday will tell a lot more about the progress of this team. I suspect we will be 6.5-7.5 point underdogs but I think there is a great opportunity to win that game.

 

[jbhtexas]

Not at all. Open looks all game. Open looks by our best shooters. Shot selection was good, movement without the ball was good, ball movement was good. A mediocre shooting team wins this game. Got great looks all game vs an elite defense.

Good looks are ones that you have a reasonable chance of making. Basketball is dynamic, things change from game to game. If a team is having a bad shooting night from 3pt range, then the offense has to adjust to something else or the team will not score enough points to win. On a bad shooting night, open 3pt looks aren't "good" looks.

ISU seems to approach the game as if it is static. They just bomb away night after night and hope for the best. The season is half over. The team is showing itself to not be a good consistent 3pt shooting team. It is what it is. The concerning thing is that there seems to be no strategy for scoring when 3pt shots aren't falling.

Someone else mentioned that BU also shot poorly from 3pt range...but they got 22 FT attempts to compensate. Fortunately for ISU, BU really didn't cash in on the advantage they gained at the FT line by hitting only 13-22. Even with that, BU outscored ISU by 10 at the FT line.

 

[CycloneVet]

Lost to #2 on the road, oh horror.

In our long illustrious history we have beaten top 5 teams on the road with regularity. Didn’t you know that?

 

[Statefan10]

Good looks are ones that you have a reasonable chance of making. Basketball is dynamic, things change from game to game. If a team is having a bad shooting night from 3pt range, then the offense has to adjust to something else or the team will not score enough points to win. On a bad shooting night, open 3pt looks aren't "good" looks.

ISU seems to approach the game as if it is static. They just bomb away night after night and hope for the best. The season is half over. The team is showing itself to not be a good consistent 3pt shooting team. It is what it is. The concerning thing is that there seems to be no strategy for scoring when 3pt shots aren't falling.

Someone else mentioned that BU also shot poorly from 3pt range...but they got 22 FT attempts to compensate. Fortunately for ISU, BU really didn't cash in on the advantage they gained at the FT line by hitting only 13-22. Even with that, BU outscored ISU by 10 at the FT line.

This is certainly fair, but I also thought we only settled for threes a few times.. We actually got the ball into our posts quite a bit in the first half but we couldn't move their bigs at all and it resulted a lot in some pretty poor attempts. Our small guards essentially couldn't finish over their length down low either. Baylor happens to be one of the best defensive teams in the nation, so without us shooting lights out in this game, the likelihood of us winning was essentially zero.

 

[SCIACY]

3 post players, Griffin, Lewis, all gave up the back door and/or did not box out, over and over. Baylor got a rebound on a missed free throw. Take note of when each got taken out of the game.

 

[Clonefan32]

They are very good and we are not very good. There's my take.

It's this kind of analysis that makes you say "wow, and somehow this website is free?"

 

[SCyclone]

Seems to me like we should have gone after a solid grad transfer rather than go all in for a high school project. That, to me, is a rebuilding move. Plenty of non-blue blood schools lose guys early and they still do fine. Quit making excuses.

With as much as you seem to know about coaching, why is it you aren't coaching at some P6 school?

 

[SCyclone]

Pretty much identical 2 pt and 3 pt shooting % for both teams. Really the difference was ISU's defensive rebounding (i.e. Baylor's offensive rebounding). That's the game.

Free throws:
Baylor 13-22
Iowa State 3-6

 

[Cyched]

Lost to #2 on the road, oh horror.

 

[fsanford]

Wonder if Drew will get offered the Spurs job when Pop retires. I sure hope so.

People talk about what Fred did when he took over a program, which was impressive.

Drew took over a program that had a murder situation and was banned from playing part of a season.

Amazing job. Now he needs to go to the NBA, or maybe UNC when Roy retires after this year

 

[Halincandenza]

Throw in the fact that Halliburton had his worst game in a long long time, maybe ever when considering his minutes played. Not blaming him or anything because he's by far our best player and he's not going to be able to play amazing every single game. Baylor was taking away every PnR and driving opportunity for him and was forcing him to make deep outside shots, which he wasn't.

It was only his worst game since Kansas. Hasn't been that long. Good defensive teams no how to take him away from what he does best. Creates a huge problem for ISU's offense because so much depends on him. Bolton had a lot of problem too when he tried to drive on Baylor whose guards for the most part are able to stick right with him.

Also, ISU must really not be coaching on how to find guys and box out. When you don't box out the best rebounder on the court in Vital, it is a problem. But with that being said, the refs let Baylor really push and shove underneath the basket on rebounds. Not only that but it seems this year that refs are letting a lot of physical play go in games, I know Bilas has mentioned this in columns as well as on broadcasts that the whole 'freedom of movement' emphasis seems to have gone out the window this year.

Also, Prohm needs to completely scrap the two big lineup with Jacobson at the 4. It doesn't work... move on, coach.

 

[CyTwins]

3 post players, Griffin, Lewis, all gave up the back door and/or did not box out, over and over. Baylor got a rebound on a missed free throw. Take note of when each got taken out of the game.

I couldn't help but laugh watching the coaches reactions when they got that rebound on the missed free throw

 

[Statefan10]

It was only his worst game since Kansas. Hasn't been that long. Good defensive teams no how to take him away from what he does best. Creates a huge problem for ISU's offense because so much depends on him. Bolton had a lot of problem too when he tried to drive on Baylor whose guards for the most part are able to stick right with him.

Also, ISU must really not be coaching on how to find guys and box out. When you don't box out the best rebounder on the court in Vital, it is a problem. But with that being said, the refs let Baylor really push and shove underneath the basket on rebounds. Not only that but it seems this year that refs are letting a lot of physical play go in games, I know Bilas has mentioned this in columns as well as on broadcasts that the whole 'freedom of movement' emphasis seems to have gone out the window this year.

Also, Prohm needs to completely scrap the two big lineup with Jacobson at the 4. It doesn't work... move on, coach.

I completely agree with this. We knew going into this season that one of our biggest worries was going to be that 4 position both on the offensive end and the defensive, especially against high level teams. When teams go with a lineup with two big-men, maybe, but when we're going two-big men against their small ball 4 and a post, we cannot matchup at all. Jacobson isn't a capable enough defender to guard that position, he's not a good enough shooter nor shoots enough to be labeled as a true threat, and he doesn't have a good enough post game down low to become a mismatch on a slightly smaller defender.

 

[heitclone]

Last night and the KU game Tyrese may have tried to take a bit too much on himself, last night in particular, his decision making was iffy. He seemed a bit rushed. I think he just puts too much pressure on himself. It'd be nice to run a few sets for him where he gets easy shots, maybe even off the ball to relax him. It's tough for him, we can't beat teams like this unless he scores but it also kind of takes him away from what he does best.It's not like he had a horrible game, he still had 9 dimes but he was just a little out of sorts.

We saw similar with Monte his SR year when there was more pressure on him to carry the load, it's easier said than done to just switch your mindset, especially with guys like Monte and Tyrese, they kind of have to battle their instincts and know when to be selfish. Tyrese probably has a bigger hill to climb in this regard because he just doesn't have as much around him and he's two years younger than Monte was when he went through the same deal.