***Official 2023 Chicago Cubs Thread***

[Cyforce]

I’d like to see them trade some combo of Mervis, Davis and/or Wesnecki, Killian for an established veteran late inning reliever. Surely there are a couple of teams out there that would be willing to bite on the past prospect bona fides of those four.

Cleveland wanted Horton for their closer who's under contract for 2 years. I think we can get one cheaper at the deadline.

It's scary to think about how good of a young rotation we can have in the coming years.
Steele
Imanaga
Horton
Brown
Wicks
Assad

To go with our young offensive talent.
C Amaya
1B Busch L / McGeary R
2B Hoerner
3B Morel and Shaw
SS Swanson (maybe not so young but under contract for awhile)
OF PCA, Davis, Canario, Caissie and Alcantara
Utl Vasquez
(Hopefully Suzuki turns into the star we extend.)

 

[ISUCubswin]

Maybe it’s paranoia, but we’re about $3-5 MM shy of tier 1 of the luxury tax. I am confident they’ll go over if necessary at the trade deadline, but if you believe you have a playoff team, why not go over it now with another SP or RP so you can buy more wins before the trade deadline?

Still lots of offseason to go, maybe they will still do something.

 

[Cyforce]

Maybe it’s paranoia, but we’re about $3-5 MM shy of tier 1 of the luxury tax. I am confident they’ll go over if necessary at the trade deadline, but if you believe you have a playoff team, why not go over it now with another SP or RP so you can buy more wins before the trade deadline?

Still lots of offseason to go, maybe they will still do something.

SP, I want to see the young guys get starts in the 5 spot. That said signing Montgomery on a short deal is enticing. But the problem with the short opt-out deals Boras is peddling is if he has a good year he's gone. If he sucks we're stuck with him. Personally I'd rather we wait till this fall and see where Hendricks is at. Kyle doesn't want to go anywhere else and if he has a good year both sides will want to work out an extension for another year ot two. Finally, Horton, Brown. Wicks. Their time is coming.

RP, basically you carry 8 relievers. You want to have minor league options with one or two of those spots. Forgive me if I miss someone, this is off the top of my head. Guys without options. Alzolay, Merryweather. Leiter, Smyly, Cuas (not sure about) plus the free agent we signed and the guy in the Busch trade. Now add guys with options that can rotate. Wesneski and Assad ( i think they do). Little and Palencia plus a bunch more that have looked good so far this spring.

In the end I think I'd hold off on a deal now for a perceived weakness and instead possibly make a deadline move to fill a need that comes to the forefront as the season plays out.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Plus Caissie and Alcantara in AA only because they need to play everyday. But I'm guessing Davis or Canario start the season in Chicago.

Caissie will start in Des Moines. He wasn't challenged by AA pitching by the end of the year and his development is a priority. He can also play some first base if he needs to.

 

[Cyforce]

Caissie will start in Des Moines. He wasn't challenged by AA pitching by the end of the year and his development is a priority. He can also play some first base if he needs to.

You're right about not being challenged at AA. But I think his initial placement comes down to the bench make up in Chicago. Here's how I see it.
1. Amaya
2. Madrigal
3. Wisdom or Cooper
4. Tauchman
5. Masterbuoni. Canario or long shot Davis

If it's masterbuoni, then you have PCA, Canario, and Davis in Iowa. Plus at least early you'll have the wisdom/Cooper loser, Dominic Smith, and Peralta in Iowa eating up DH ABs.

Eventually this will thin out making room for Caissie and McGeary in Des Moines.

My gut feeling is Wisdom gets traded at some point this spring. Tauchman has value as well and will likely go when PCA gets promoted. Peralta will opt out unless we have an injury in the Bigs. Happ is sidelined with a Hammy but Davis and Canario are the guys I'd rather see fill that spot.

So at the midway point I'm hoping the big league club looks like this.
C Gomes Amaya
1B Busch Cooper
2B Hoerner
3B Morel Shaw
SS Swanson
LF Happ
CF Bellinger PCA
RF Suzuki
Utl inf Madrigal (but maybe Vasquez)
5th OF Canario or Davis

Corrected my omission of PCA but I don't know who you'd remove. Probably 5th OF but that would be a shame.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

You're right about not being challenged at AA. But I think his initial placement comes down to the bench make up in Chicago. Here's how I see it.
1. Amaya
2. Madrigal
3. Wisdom or Cooper
4. Tauchman
5. Masterbuoni. Canario or long shot Davis

If it's masterbuoni, then you have PCA, Canario, and Davis in Iowa. Plus at least early you'll have the wisdom/Cooper loser, Dominic Smith, and Peralta in Iowa eating up DH ABs.

Eventually this will thin out making room for Caissie and McGeary in Des Moines.

My gut feeling is Wisdom gets traded at some point this spring. Tauchman has value as well and will likely go when PCA gets promoted. Peralta will opt out unless we have an injury in the Bigs. Happ is sidelined with a Hammy but Davis and Canario are the guys I'd rather see fill that spot.

So at the midway point I'm hoping the big league club looks like this.
C Gomes Amaya
1B Busch Cooper
2B Hoerner
3B Morel Shaw
SS Swanson
LF Happ
CF Bellinger
RF Suzuki
Utl inf Madrigal (but maybe Vasquez)
5th OF Canario or Davis

This is the first time in my life where the Cubs have this 'problem' and it's amazing.

Agreed on that roster by August. I think they're going to let PCA have most of the year at Iowa. They've finally seemed to learn their lesson about rushing guys because of one overwhelming tool at the expense of the player reaching his ceiling. I think Shaw is going to force their hands like Nico did.

 

[Cyforce]

This is the first time in my life where the Cubs have this 'problem' and it's amazing.

Agreed on that roster by August. I think they're going to let PCA have most of the year at Iowa. They've finally seemed to learn their lesson about rushing guys because of one overwhelming tool at the expense of the player reaching his ceiling. I think Shaw is going to force their hands like Nico did.

Damn, I left PCA off. They just have too much talent to squeeze into one roster.

 

[tman24]

Damn, I left PCA off. They just have too much talent to squeeze into one roster.

Hopefully they get playing time and if they don't perform call up the next guy.

 

[Cyforce]

Hopefully they get playing time and if they don't perform call up the next guy.

My hope is PCA blows up. Bellinger moves to left and Happ requests a trade. Even if we covered half his salary and got a good prospect we'd still come out ahead.

 

[CYdTracked]

You can always assume there is going to be an unexpected injury or a guy or 2 that will under-perform so at some point so having some talent depth in the minors is sure a nice thing to have. I'm excited to get to an Iowa Cubs game as the roster should be loaded to start the year.

It will all sort itself out at some point. Im just ready to give the boot to guys like Wisdom and Mastrobuoni at some point when the roster crunch happens. Someone will probably tear it up in Iowa like Morel did last year and force their way into the lineup in Chicago.

Pitching still worries me a bit but we have the trade chips to acquire some if it becomes a big need.

 

[RagingCloner]

You can always assume there is going to be an unexpected injury or a guy or 2 that will under-perform so at some point so having some talent depth in the minors is sure a nice thing to have. I'm excited to get to an Iowa Cubs game as the roster should be loaded to start the year.

It will all sort itself out at some point. Im just ready to give the boot to guys like Wisdom and Mastrobuoni at some point when the roster crunch happens. Someone will probably tear it up in Iowa like Morel did last year and force their way into the lineup in Chicago.

Pitching still worries me a bit but we have the trade chips to acquire some if it becomes a big need.

I’m of the mindset that we have some very solid pitching prospects too, however they are further from the bigs from what I understand

 

[Cyforce]

The Jaguar goes deep to center!

 

[CYdTracked]

I kind of hope they can find a trade to move Bote to a team that has some playing time at 2B and get a low level prospectwith some upside or maybe a bullpen arm that has some minor league options. He's having a nice spring training but there is just no room or logic to add him to the 40 man.

I try not to get too excited about spring training performances but we have some young guys that won't be opening day roster guys that have been doing well and hopefully keep the momentum going in the minors. Lot of criticism for the return on the guys we traded away but several of the guys we got in those trades are showing a lot of promise. Caissie may be the lone guy from the Darvish trade that pans out and he looks like he could be a masher. PCA Alcantara and Canario are looking good and hopefully Killian figures it out.

I like the outlook right now over what would of happened if we had paid up for Bryant Rizzo and Baez. Have a nice core and a deep farm system instead of an overpaid and under achieving roster that probably doesn't have the talent we have now in the minors.

 

[isucy86]

I kind of hope they can find a trade to move Bote to a team that has some playing time at 2B and get a low level prospectwith some upside or maybe a bullpen arm that has some minor league options. He's having a nice spring training but there is just no room or logic to add him to the 40 man.

I try not to get too excited about spring training performances but we have some young guys that won't be opening day roster guys that have been doing well and hopefully keep the momentum going in the minors. Lot of criticism for the return on the guys we traded away but several of the guys we got in those trades are showing a lot of promise. Caissie may be the lone guy from the Darvish trade that pans out and he looks like he could be a masher. PCA Alcantara and Canario are looking good and hopefully Killian figures it out.

I like the outlook right now over what would of happened if we had paid up for Bryant Rizzo and Baez. Have a nice core and a deep farm system instead of an overpaid and under achieving roster that probably doesn't have the talent we have now in the minors.

There could be some tough decisions and it will be interesting on Counsell's direction out of spring training. The fan in me wants to see as many prospects in Chicago as possible. But I also understand the mindset of having young prospects start the season in the minors to maximize their at bats/defensive reps. With the plan to bring a few guys up mid-season.

It will be interesting to see what the Cubs do with vets who provide depth at 2B,3B & SS like: Wisdom, Madrigal, Mastrobuoni and Bote. I have always like Bote, I am rooting for him to make the roster as a utility guy at 1B, 2B and 3B. Could be he does well enough in the majors that he has trade value opening the door for Vazquez mid-season. Same goes for Madrigal.

 

[CYdTracked]

There could be some tough decisions and it will be interesting on Counsell's direction out of spring training. The fan in me wants to see as many prospects in Chicago as possible. But I also understand the mindset of having young prospects start the season in the minors to maximize their at bats/defensive reps. With the plan to bring a few guys up mid-season.

It will be interesting to see what the Cubs do with vets who provide depth at 2B,3B & SS like: Wisdom, Madrigal, Mastrobuoni and Bote. I have always like Bote, I am rooting for him to make the roster as a utility guy at 1B, 2B and 3B. Could be he does well enough in the majors that he has trade value opening the door for Vazquez mid-season. Same goes for Madrigal.

The problem with Bote is that he is not currently on the 40 man roster so would have to DFA or trade someone then if you do add him to the MLB roster he won't have minor league options so you basically are committed to either keeping him around or having to cut or trade him if you need his roster spot. I think the best thing for all involved is to find a situation with another organization where he can get the playing time without it being a burden on the MLB roster if he has some rough patches. Cubs have comparable guys that can play his positions that still have minor league options so unfortunately I just don't see him making the opening day roster. If Morel can prove that he can handle 3B Wisdom and Madrigal could get squeezed out eventually too. Madrigal has some value as a utility infielder still as he can play 2B and even some SS in a pinch where Wisdom is not that great defensively at either corner so I will be surprised if he makes it through the season with the Cubs as his bat is the only thing that has kept him around this long.

 

[Cyforce]

The problem with Bote is that he is not currently on the 40 man roster so would have to DFA or trade someone then if you do add him to the MLB roster he won't have minor league options so you basically are committed to either keeping him around or having to cut or trade him if you need his roster spot. I think the best thing for all involved is to find a situation with another organization where he can get the playing time without it being a burden on the MLB roster if he has some rough patches. Cubs have comparable guys that can play his positions that still have minor league options so unfortunately I just don't see him making the opening day roster. If Morel can prove that he can handle 3B Wisdom and Madrigal could get squeezed out eventually too. Madrigal has some value as a utility infielder still as he can play 2B and even some SS in a pinch where Wisdom is not that great defensively at either corner so I will be surprised if he makes it through the season with the Cubs as his bat is the only thing that has kept him around this long.

He's in the final year of his 5 year contract. Although it has two club options. So if he were to get dealt you'd think it would be this year.

 

[CYdTracked]

I don't watch the ST games but this should be an interesting lineup today to see how everyone does.

1. Nico Hoerner, SS
2. Dominic Smith, 1B
3. Chris Morel, 3B
4. Garrett Cooper, DH
5. Nick Madrigal, 2B
6. Miguel Amaya, C
7. Owen Caissie, LF
8. Alexander Canario, RF
9. Pete Crow-Armstrong, CF

 

[isucy86]

The problem with Bote is that he is not currently on the 40 man roster so would have to DFA or trade someone then if you do add him to the MLB roster he won't have minor league options so you basically are committed to either keeping him around or having to cut or trade him if you need his roster spot. I think the best thing for all involved is to find a situation with another organization where he can get the playing time without it being a burden on the MLB roster if he has some rough patches. Cubs have comparable guys that can play his positions that still have minor league options so unfortunately I just don't see him making the opening day roster. If Morel can prove that he can handle 3B Wisdom and Madrigal could get squeezed out eventually too. Madrigal has some value as a utility infielder still as he can play 2B and even some SS in a pinch where Wisdom is not that great defensively at either corner so I will be surprised if he makes it through the season with the Cubs as his bat is the only thing that has kept him around this long.

Understood. If the Cubs keep Bote, they value him more as a utility guy than Wisdom or Mastrobuoni- guys who are on the 40 man.

Bote's bat doesn't have the HR pop of Wisdom, but his power far exceeds Madrigal or Mastrobuoni. I am not a big Mastrobuoni fan, he and Madrigal are duplicates. But Madrigal at least hits .260+.

I go with Madrigal and Bote as utility infielders. Partially hoping they have solid first halves of the season to have trade value in July. By moving on from Wisdom and Mastrobuoni- that creates an opening roster spot for a prospect OF or even Vazquez.

 

[isucy86]

He's in the final year of his 5 year contract. Although it has two club options. So if he were to get dealt you'd think it would be this year.

I feel Bote and Madrigal are at the same crossroads with the Cubs. They will probably never be everyday players- so they either prove themselves as above average utility players in 2024. Where they have value to the Cubs as elite utility guys or as trade pieces.

If they don't differentiate themselves early in 2024, then it's an opportunity for a Vazquez, Shaw, etc.

 

[RivClone23]

Understood. If the Cubs keep Bote, they value him more as a utility guy than Wisdom or Mastrobuoni- guys who are on the 40 man.

Bote's bat doesn't have the HR pop of Wisdom, but his power far exceeds Madrigal or Mastrobuoni. I am not a big Mastrobuoni fan, he and Madrigal are duplicates. But Madrigal at least hits .260+.

I go with Madrigal and Bote as utility infielders. Partially hoping they have solid first halves of the season to have trade value in July. By moving on from Wisdom and Mastrobuoni- that creates an opening roster spot for a prospect OF or even Vazquez.

I don't necessarily disagree regarding Mastrobuoni vs Madrigal vs Bote, but Mastro does hit left handed and is a little more flexible defensively.