Newspapers compared to other media

NodawayRiverClone

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I fully understand that ad revenue pays for it. As I mentioned in my last post, why haven't newspapers figured out how to adapt in this new era like others have?

I think the short answer is the newspapers still have print subscribers that require paper, ink, printing, and distribution. The DMR posts stories online about as fast as editors approve them. But it is likely the print side does not support itself, and now it is even tougher with ad revenue dropping. Notice what Meredith has done in the face of ad revenue dropping for their magazines.
 

ArgentCy

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Jan 13, 2010
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Specifically with newspapers, the biggest reason they have such a problem these days is the lack of a relevant classifies ads section. That used to be a HUGE form of revenue from them and now it's just gone. For a company like ours, sure we've had to evolve over the years, but we've never drastically just had a revenue form disappear.

AND, it doesn't help the most newspapers are owned by giant conglomerates these days. Publication A could be profitable, while Publications B, C, D and E are not .. but Publication A will still get gutted for it.

And media companies, in my opinion, need to be media companies. We've got a lot of hedge fund people and crap in this industry now. It used to be about journalism while still making money. Now, for many, it's about trying to make money and doing a little journalism on the side.

Cough...paging Mr B to Washington...Cough

Things change, always have and always will. Papers started as they found that people liked to buy a paper in the mornings with their cup of coffee. Then they got bigger and found that some people liked getting one everyday and so they started sending them right to the front door every morning. And like most things once a system gets too big it starts to die off and usually you find a new technology that hastens the change, in this case the internet.

There are still real journalists these days. People like CW and CF who have created their own little market and do excellent journalism. There are some that like sports, you can find plenty still on government, and probably a bunch that people haven't even thought of before. Except they are just harder to find because it's a lot of very small companies or even just individuals putting out videos on YouTube.

Personally I've found my own news aggregator and commentator on economics and government that I like (those in the Cave will know the site). They list at least 47 other small companies and individuals (really they are journalists) that they have and will occasional share content. The fact that some of you may not like my choice of authors is NOT relevant to me. And this is the best option. The more varied opinions that exist the better.
 

ArgentCy

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TL/DR version...

People will seek out QUALITY journalism.... and so that will never disappear. It's just the details of how it happens; the who, what, when, and where that change.
 

MeanDean

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Yes, I gave up on city newspapers a couple decades ago since on-line news is available from multiple sources. And with that comes a more watchdog/competitive approach to allow readers to evaluate agendas and biases over time.

The only physical newspaper I subscribe to at this point is a small town weekly that covers only our county with some local advertising that is of interest to me. Plus, (face it, I'm old) Obituaries to see who I'm outliving. So far.
 

SpokaneCY

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Apr 11, 2006
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The issue with print journalism is they cannot match the speed at which news is reported on. The business model for supporting physical paper needs to be eliminated OR some kind of digital-based newspaper needs to emerge. Imagine owning some kind of e-reader where the headlines could change in real-time as journalists upload their articles to the cloud.

I think slow journalism is WAY better journalism. Take ANY breaking story from the web and follow it for a few weeks to see how little true info is initially reported but how many opinions are already formed by being first to air/print.

We aren't being bombarded with news and information, we're being bombarded with others opinions wrapped into only a few data pieces. Nobody sticks around for the entire news story to cycle through for the complete who's what's where's, why's and how's so we're left with often wrong breathless headlines of garbage from all sides.
 

cycloneworld

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TL/DR version...

People will seek out QUALITY journalism.... and so that will never disappear. It's just the details of how it happens; the who, what, when, and where that change.

People will also seek out value. It's why I think The Athletic is so popular. For $5 per month, I can read all different sports stories from all parts of the country. And they are transparent with pricing.

Go subscribe to the Des Moines Register and try to figure out what it actually costs. $2.99 per week for the first 3 months and then its very difficult to find what it actually costs after that. No idea why someone wouldn't be completely transparent with pricing in this day and age unless your costs are crazy high and you are embarrassed to tell people...
 

ChrisMWilliams

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People will also seek out value. It's why I think The Athletic is so popular. For $5 per month, I can read all different sports stories from all parts of the country. And they are transparent with pricing.

Go subscribe to the Des Moines Register and try to figure out what it actually costs. $2.99 per week for the first 3 months and then its very difficult to find what it actually costs after that. No idea why someone wouldn't be completely transparent with pricing in this day and age unless your costs are crazy high and you are embarrassed to tell people...

My guess with the Register is that they don't have any control over it here in Des Moines. Again, just a guess. There is probably some formula that Gannet uses nationwide and it gets dictated down to the folks working here.
 

Rabbuk

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I'll read a newspaper if it's put in front of me but I don't understand it's purpose anymore. It lags behind a day and by the time it's written I've already read about it online.
 

Sigmapolis

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Specifically with newspapers, the biggest reason they have such a problem these days is the lack of a relevant classifies ads section. That used to be a HUGE form of revenue from them and now it's just gone. For a company like ours, sure we've had to evolve over the years, but we've never drastically just had a revenue form disappear.

AND, it doesn't help the most newspapers are owned by giant conglomerates these days. Publication A could be profitable, while Publications B, C, D and E are not .. but Publication A will still get gutted for it.

And media companies, in my opinion, need to be media companies. We've got a lot of hedge fund people and crap in this industry now. It used to be about journalism while still making money. Now, for many, it's about trying to make money and doing a little journalism on the side.

I have posted this before, but I thought you might like to see this --

newspapers-in-trouble-624x434.jpg


Google (and I mean the company, not just the search engine) took all the money that used to go to newspapers. Facebook is slowly working on taking the rest.

The funny thing is, before that happened, newspapers were one of the most dependably profitable industries throughout the economy across any sector. They enjoyed their local monopolies and took anywhere from 20% to 30% profits.

Google just converted a thousand small, local niches and monopolies into one large national one, and they have a pretty similar profit margin for their troubles.
 

Sigmapolis

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I could write a book about this, but will give you something quick to chew on.

It's about journalism, and I'm not even talking about sports here.

It's important to our democracy that our local and state governments be held in check. Nobody reads the city council report or whatever but it's important that a watchdog is there. Otherwise, our entire democracy could get lost.

The big pubs do this with the federal stuff, but if we lose all local journalism (again I'm talking news, not sports), there won't be anybody to keep our government and community leaders in check.

That's why it's important, IMO. And that stuff takes time and resources.

I'll try to come back to this to give you more later.

Information is becoming like so many other sectors right now. The big ones and the big winners are doing great, but outside of the prestige outlets in New York, Washington, and maybe some second-tier locations like Chicago and Los Angeles (and not even those so much), it is an absolutely brutal industry to walk into right now.

My SIL has a journalism degree from a Top 10 program in the field, but she abandoned it by the time she was 25 and fell back on her teaching certification instead. The pay was nothing, the work was very hard, and jobs were scarce. She gave up.

The way young journalists get into the field is completely different from even a decade ago, too. People used to have to start at the bottom of the totem pole at small, local, regional outfits doing unsexy things like court reporting before they could graduate up to local politics and then onto larger publications in larger cities and start the cycle anew. No young reporters were covering national politics in DC or major financial news in New York -- they had to put in the time to have the experience and perspective to swim in those waters.

Now... you come out of an elite school and hope you can win the lottery and essentially start at the top. If you fail, you go and get a job in banking or consulting instead and forget all about journalism ever interesting you. If you did not come out of an elite school, then there is really nowhere for you to go at all. Time for a different career choice.

You can see these trends (e.g., young journalists given way too much responsibility way too early, all of them having the "perspective" and biases that only a young adult coming out of an elite East Coast school would have, and only being done from a few cities with very little underneath it, etc.) playing out everywhere right now.

These are not even the most significant effects, like you said. The hooliganism the state and local elected officials, prosecutors, cops, and judges are going to get away with without anybody even pretending to watch them is going to be hilarious. Sure, most of the Cave is about a single elected official, but most of our real world interactions with politics and power are on these micro levels, not the macro. But we want entertainment and theater instead of journalism and responsible citizenship, so here we are.
 
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cycloneworld

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My guess with the Register is that they don't have any control over it here in Des Moines. Again, just a guess. There is probably some formula that Gannet uses nationwide and it gets dictated down to the folks working here.

Then your comment about massive media companies is a much bigger problem in my opinion. If they don’t have a handle on how people buy in this day and age (the days of signup now for cheap and we’ll screw you on price later are over) then they will struggle.

People want: transparency (know what they are getting and the price they will pay), flexibility (no 2 year contracts), quality, and real-ness. Things you aren’t typically getting with aging, huge companies that are slow to change.
 

isucy86

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Apr 13, 2006
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I like to read a daily newspaper, but IMO it is just a matter of time when all newspapers deliver their content entirely online. The costs to print and deliver a physical newspaper will become an unnecessary cost. It bugs the heck out of me that a significant % of content in a conglomerate newspaper like the DMR are wire service articles that are available for free online. For local newspapers to survive they need to have robust local content. After all, national content is available from a lot of sources. If people see value in a newspaper's content, they would be willing to pay a monthly subscription price.

Similarly, I think the days of traditional cable are numbered. IMO most people would much rather watch TV on demand vs.at a scheduled time. Services like Netflix, Amazon, etc. will replace traditional cable,dish, streaming providers. Obviously the key is going to be developing/buying content people want to watch.
 

Cyched

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But we want entertainment and theater instead of journalism and responsible citizenship, so here we are.

I can't say everything I want to say about this, otherwise the thread will get caved. But one of the bigger tragedies of the modern media was when they discovered that outrage and tribalism generates more clicks and interest, and therefore more money, than typical informational news articles.
 

Sigmapolis

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I can't say everything I want to say about this, otherwise the thread will get caved. But one of the bigger tragedies of the modern media was when they discovered that outrage and tribalism generates more clicks and interest, and therefore more money, than typical informational news articles.

In the 20th Century, sex sold.

In the 21st Century, rage sells.
 

BoxsterCy

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Real journalism is time-consuming work. You can say it doesn't sell and maybe you're right. Maybe it isn't profitable enough for Wall Street, but it can be profitable enough to survive in the right hands. But it's far, far too important to let die.

I feel lucky that the Twin Cities paper, Star Tribune, is still locally and privately owned and not fallen to the USA Today level McPaper route or been purchased by some cost cutting holding company with no interest in real journalism. They still seem like the same paper as the past, maybe even better to some extent as they are partnered with the Washington Post and NY Times to supplement their own reporters while maintaining a hefty regional reporting staff. They still do real investigative reporting to, not the joke level crap that the local TV stations try to pass of as "investigative reporting" during sweeps week.
 

J-Diggy

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The government was never meant to operate in the dark....and that goes from the federal level down to your local city council. Right now in many cities, Des Moines included, the local paper doesn't have staff to cover council meetings, the country board of supervisors, and even the state legislature on a consistent basis. In the old days there was a beat reporter for all those things who knew the people, knew the issues, and knew how to find answers. Now if a reporter does cover a meeting they aren't a regular, are probably new to the job, and don't know what issues are really important.

When I was in journalism school at ISU I was told to go cover a Board of Regents meeting where they were going to talk about eliminating duplicate programs at Iowa and ISU, which was a big deal. On the way back from the meeting, **** Haws who was a professor at the time, was stunned that I hadn't picked up on 4 or 5 other items on the agenda that he thought were equally interesting. Now, there is no one to know to look for those other big issues.

Sorry....climbing down off my soap box now.

Two final things:
1. City and County government WANTS the coverage. They might have some tough conversation when an issue is controversial but they also do a lot of good work that effects all of us every day that they deserve credit for.
2. If the content you are getting is "free" then YOU as the consumer are the product they are selling. Nothing is truly free.
 

madguy30

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I can't say everything I want to say about this, otherwise the thread will get caved. But one of the bigger tragedies of the modern media was when they discovered that outrage and tribalism generates more clicks and interest, and therefore more money, than typical informational news articles.

This is why I find it much more mindful if I can read an actual physical newspaper or watch the local and basic channels (NBC/CBS) national news if I ever watch it. They might be behind on the reporting, but there's a chance more information has been gathered compared to using trigger tactics. Also they just say what happened, and....that's it.

Any more if I see the word 'outraged' in an article title I just assume someone overreacted to something for attention.
 

Cycsk

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We hear over and over and over "subscribe to your local newspaper", "support local journalism", "content isn't free!" from many media folks. I get it, they want people to pay for their content. Serious question - why are they different from other forms of media that make the free model work?

Radio content - free
Podcast content - free
TV Channels (OTA) content - free
Youtube content - free
News websites content - free
CF-type websites content - free

I subscribe to The Athletic and the NY Times so I'm clearly not against paying for content but legit curious why newspapers and news media think they are different and special than other forms. Why haven't they figured this out like other forms? Please educate me.


Newspapers still use a subscription model because they can. As long as so many (yes there are still many) subscribe, they would be dumb not to take their money.
 

theshadow

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City and County government WANTS the coverage.

Plus, publication fees for mandatory legal notices -- which government entities do weekly, if not more often -- are also a significant chunk of revenue for newspapers.