Keep posting this crap. It's fun even though it isn't true. I have nothing against KJ other than his lack of performance. As I posted in my last message--I want him to be successful as that is the best case scenario for everyone. 2014-15 is a make or break year for for the coaching staff. In this thread I'm trying to determine what constitutes making it or breaking it in the minds of fellow posters. It is a pertinent, important question for the wrestling program. Sorry if analyzing/evaluating hurts your feelings.
Looking to next year
- Thread starter NEICyFan
- Start date
Keep posting this crap. It's fun even though it isn't true. I have nothing against KJ other than his lack of performance. As I posted in my last message--I want him to be successful as that is the best case scenario for everyone. 2014-15 is a make or break year for for the coaching staff. In this thread I'm trying to determine what constitutes making it or breaking it in the minds of fellow posters. It is a pertinent, important question for the wrestling program. Sorry if analyzing/evaluating hurts your feelings.
Doesn't hurt my feelings, I just think it's pathetic that you have such a problem you have to create fictitious accounts to criticize.
There is a history feature on here, people can read all of your "support."
You even admitted in one thread you don't have Iowa State season tickets, but you have them for UNI. And anytime anyone says something remotely negative about your hawks, you're here to defend them.
So keep trying to pretend you actually want Iowa State to succeed, it doesn't pass the smell test.
And another thing, all of your criticisms, I'm sure Coach Jackson would be happy to address them, go to his office.
I don't think you're queso, but maybe ronsnap. That's the closest one I've found so far
What about Jackson hasn't been successful? My long posts were realistic shots at what Jackson has had to overcome.
The only way he'd become successful in your eyes was filling an empty room with amazing talent that could perform high all-american as Freshman and Sophomores - yeah that's happened a lot at ISU. You don't seem to understand college wrestling very well like I posted before Pollard knew that instant gratification wasn't going to happen hiring Jackson.
Jackson even had a recruiting class that could have done it - the Moreno / Gadson class and like I explained in the post before who knew that the top 2 recruits wouldn't end up being D1 talent.
Jackson has been successful to say anything but is just foolish, as successful as any one would of liked no we all wished that Jackson could have pulled off a miracle. Have some understanding of the mountain this man has had to climb.
With that being said I'll agree that excuse time is over we should expect better than 12th finish from here on out. I'll say it over and over - the next few years will define the future of ISU wrestling.
The only way he'd become successful in your eyes was filling an empty room with amazing talent that could perform high all-american as Freshman and Sophomores - yeah that's happened a lot at ISU. You don't seem to understand college wrestling very well like I posted before Pollard knew that instant gratification wasn't going to happen hiring Jackson.
Jackson even had a recruiting class that could have done it - the Moreno / Gadson class and like I explained in the post before who knew that the top 2 recruits wouldn't end up being D1 talent.
Jackson has been successful to say anything but is just foolish, as successful as any one would of liked no we all wished that Jackson could have pulled off a miracle. Have some understanding of the mountain this man has had to climb.
With that being said I'll agree that excuse time is over we should expect better than 12th finish from here on out. I'll say it over and over - the next few years will define the future of ISU wrestling.
I think one thing that KJ had to overcome and learn is recruiting. Who to recruit, how much to pay, what type of athlete will work in his program, etc.
KJ had no college coaching experience when he started.
Yero - I don't think had any D1 coaching experience
Eric Voelker had 0 D1 coaching experience
Travis - had 0 D1 coaching experience
Troy N had 0 D1 coaching experience
Bono had the experience but couldn't get along with KJ, I understand
There were mistakes made in recruiting, how much to pay, get the right kids, etc.
I think relationship are being established with high school kids and the coaches at a younger age
This takes time and the lack of coaching knowledge in D1 wrestling is something this staff is overcoming. We have a very good staff now that I couldn't say I would agree with a couple years ago.
I like how KJ is reaching out to others (J of Minnesota, Gable -last year I think) to get help
I would be okay with another 2 year extension.
KJ had no college coaching experience when he started.
Yero - I don't think had any D1 coaching experience
Eric Voelker had 0 D1 coaching experience
Travis - had 0 D1 coaching experience
Troy N had 0 D1 coaching experience
Bono had the experience but couldn't get along with KJ, I understand
There were mistakes made in recruiting, how much to pay, get the right kids, etc.
I think relationship are being established with high school kids and the coaches at a younger age
This takes time and the lack of coaching knowledge in D1 wrestling is something this staff is overcoming. We have a very good staff now that I couldn't say I would agree with a couple years ago.
I like how KJ is reaching out to others (J of Minnesota, Gable -last year I think) to get help
I would be okay with another 2 year extension.
I would be ok with an extension also. We have a good wrestling tradition at Iowa State. That said, am I pleased with the last few years? Not necessarily, but I am pleased with the direction our program is going and I don't think it's down. Look at the position Michael Moreno was in two years ago and now he's a 2x All-American. Not bad results when you consider most kids in that situation may have folded..Lelund Weatherspoon is a red-shirt freshman that won the 184 title in the Big 12's while wrestling in a 174 pound frame. Recruiting wise, we have landed some quality kids given the situation. I think a lot of it is developing the recruits we get and work on their skills technically. Of course I would love to have that perennial powerhouse program such as Penn State, Okie State, or Iowa, but that will take time.
The more i keep thinking of that statement - please take the time to explain what has been lacking in his performance? Dont' just say we should be better and finish higher actually give us some of your great knowledge of college wrestling on how Jackson could have realistically done so much better. What specific expectations of his performance are you referring to? Have some time on my hands until the BB game starts and would love to have a great intellectual debate on ISU wrestling with a fellow Cyclone wrestling supporter / Hawk Panther troll.
Very good background behind our exsisting situation - aka...learn by fire. I would like for ISU to stay consistently in the top 8, with a solid push for a title in up years. The previous lackluster years, did not just happen overnight, nor did it begin with KJ, and the return will not happen overnight.
I will support the extention. Proud to be a season ticket holder.
I will support the extention. Proud to be a season ticket holder.
I'm really sorry my personal financial and life situation doesn't allow me to be a season ticket holder for ISU wrestling and thus I'm unable to be a fan in your eyes. Nevermind that ISU gets plenty of my $$$ otherwise. Oh, and what's this crap about going to KJ's office? Why do I have to do that? I thought message boards were for discussions? Guess I was wrong--gimme a break. And what do you think He's going to tell me if I did? He's probably going to agree with me that the expectations should be higher than the finishes we are getting.
I sure didn't want KJ as the wrestling coach, my thinking was and still is that he cannot "Recruit" well enough to ever threaten Iowa in a Dual, not to mention beating Cael and Penn State.
After another dismal finish next year it will be time for a change.
Please give me a break with the anti-KJ stuff. I've said since he signed the extension that I'm on board and looking for improvement. He's our guy for next year but doesn't have a contract beyond next season. It is only prudent at this point in time to discuss what needs to be done for him to receive another extension.
As for your question above, that's a relatively easy question to answer. ISU is one of the most storied and most well supported wrestling programs in the country. ISU is one of only a hand full of programs with a realistic shot of contending for a national title on a regular basis. The past 4 years we have finished: 20th, 35th, 11th and 12th. In the fifth year of this program we couldn't get into the top 10 and in the fifth year of this program we had 5(!) starters finish with sub-.500 records. Half the team had a losing record. Think about just how bad that is for just a second. You're telling me that in five years it is unrealistic to think we could find a wrestler at most every weight class who could produce a winning record?
This isn't football where it takes years to rebuild. Wrestling programs can/should be rebuilt rather quickly. Simply put, recruiting, retention and development do not approach elite levels.
If having higher expectations than what we are getting for program than what we're getting makes me a bad fan, so be it. We're Iowa State, for crying out loud. When I read comments from this thread and others that we should be content with the results we are getting it makes me think too many people have forgotten this. These kind of comments make me want to pull my hair out.
This is a guy that gets it. That last sentence was well said. The number of fans who don't think 12th is a bad season has me concerned.
Iowa fans are pulling their hair out after finishing 4th. I'm not sure we need to be at that level but the lack of concern over our finishes has me frustrated.
-ISU is one of the most storied and most well supported wrestling programs in the country. ISU is one of only a hand full of programs with a realistic shot of contending for a national title on a regular basis.
Agree on the first statement Nichols and Gibbons created that environment, on the second one I would have to disagree - we haven't been that since Nichols and Gibbons left - Douglass couldn't do it here and Cael couldn't do it here.
This isn't football where it takes years to rebuild. Wrestling programs can/should be rebuilt rather quickly.
Disagree when you consider the size of the the whole Cael left us in - like the facts that i posted earlier to expect anything different is just asinine - nice to know your expectation was for Jackson to work miracles.
Simply put, recruiting, retention and development do not approach elite levels.
Agree on early recruiting except for his 2nd class, can you specific on retention and how it relates to Jacksons performance? Can you be specific on development? Which wrestlers have not developed?
Sorry in advance that I can't figure out the multi-quote.
Contending. Disagree but it is a matter of perspective: Douglas had us well into the top 10 consistently. Top 6 nine times. Top 4 five times. Top 2 three times. That's contending on a somewhat regular basis. Cael had us in contention every year.
Rebuilding. The midwest is a fertile recruiting area and we recruit nationally. Picking up 2-3 somewhat high level wrestlers each year isn't asking for a miracle. Neither is the expectation that over 5 years we have at least a solid wrestler at most every weight.
Retention/Development: In 5 years he has recruited/developed just three wrestlers to AA status. We are not littering the podium at the NCAA tournament with wrestlers. It's either a recruiting problem, a development problem, or both. I don't see the need for going into deep specifics here but certainly guys like Beard, Goettl, Bauer, Finch, Trent Weatherman, and Cozart all come to mind when talking about retention and development. I might even throw a guy like Cole Shafer in there, who qualified for the NCAAs as a frosh then more or less disappeared.
He's got a year left. This year is simply huge for his future and for the program. If we can get several guys to make a big leap we will be in good shape.
Again - agree on the recruiting - to get back to being a consistent top 10 program (all we've been consistent at since nichols/ gibbons era) we need to do a better job here - think Buf or Judoka stated that this has been a work in progress for Jackson to figure out
Beard - Injured this year, cant say we know what his development was
Goettl - Agree disappointment
Bauer - How could you say a RFR hasn't developed? Again isn't there injury here as well, again your expectation is every wrestler is an AA as RFR?
Finch - Not d1 talent - otherwise he'd be at a d1 school right now NAIA champ would prob put him at ~ where he was at ISU ranked near 20th
Trent Weatherman - injured out for career
Cozart - see Finch
Has M. Moreno developed? Has Gadson? Not sure if you watched ISU wrestling during the year, i know you spend significant time trolling our boards in between going to UNI / Iowa matches did you see Quean develop?
While we are at it - give me some examples of great development of ISU wrestlers in the past something we can specifically use as an example of what your expecting Jackson to do.
