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GTO said:
There are some people that absolutely think conference tournament results are important (Jay Bilas for one) and some that do not care. However, those are just people's opinions, the fact is that they do matter and the selection comittee does take those results into account when determining seeding. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
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Why haven't you been able to come up with examples of where the Conference Tournament significantly affected KU's seeding?
 
GTO said:
There are some people that absolutely think conference tournament results are important (Jay Bilas for one) and some that do not care. However, those are just people's opinions, the fact is that they do matter and the selection comittee does take those results into account when determining seeding. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
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We aren't stating that they don't matter to everyone. We all agree that the selection committee factors those games into seeding. I just haven't seen a clear, specific example of losing in a conference tourney mattering to the seeding of Kansas in at least the last decade. There's only 4 seasons in the last 10 to look at so the sample size is admittedly small. But feel free to show me a specific example of KU losing out on a higher seed because they didn't win the conference tourney.
 
GTO said:
There are some people that absolutely think conference tournament results are important (Jay Bilas for one) and some that do not care. However, those are just people's opinions, the fact is that they do matter and the selection comittee does take those results into account when determining seeding. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
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And I never argued otherwise. As I just said, they can affect seeding. Each of the 5 times that KU has been a #1 seed under Self, they won the conference tournament. But I think in those years if we had lost the conference tourney, we might have still been a 1 seed, or at worst a 2 or 3.

Every game you play can affect your seeding. When I say I don't put much value in conference tournament championships, I am talking about their value as an end in themselves, not a means to an end.
 
twocoach said:
We aren't stating that they don't matter to everyone. We all agree that the selection committee factors those games into seeding. I just haven't seen a clear, specific example of losing in a conference tourney mattering to the seeding of Kansas in at least the last decade. There's only 4 seasons in the last 10 to look at so the sample size is admittedly small. But feel free to show me a specific example of KU losing out on a higher seed because they didn't win the conference tourney.
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We were #2 seeds in 2003, 2012, and 2014. I think we probably would have been a #1 seed in each of these years had we won the conference tournament.
 
You know what I found odd? When I watched the game at AFH, I did not see one "We Want Kentucky" sign (or even "We Want Temple" for that matter). Strange...
 
twocoach said:
It is disappointing when KU loses at any point in the the tourney. I have already stated that it's a bummer when they lose earlier than anticipated but that I don't sweat it much knowing that they'll have a great shot at contending the next year. as for the national perception, meh. Don't care. My theory is that people get mad at the the teams that screw up their office brackets. KU, Duke and Syracuse have jacked up some serious brackets in the last ten years so it sticks in peoples memory. No biggie. And I invite you to check your math (and your spelling) on your "less than 2 wins per tourny" shtick. Probably shouldn't use all time records considering the entire tourney was only a few rounds originally. Self is 28-10 in the tourney in 11 seasons at KU which works out to more than 2.5 wins per year.
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Tuco, Tuco, Tuco, ya just can't bring yourself to say it, can you? Don't change, we love you just the way you are...slightly delusional, but entertaining.
My numbers are correct, and if it makes the truth easier to embrace by cherry picking timeframes vs KU's body of work, you stick with that.
Try checking only the even years, maybe the numbers will improve to 2.1 average tourney wins. Any way you slice it, KU underperforms. I won't hold my breath waiting for a KU fan to admit it's true.
Oh, and when your rebuttals include comments about spelling? Its a sure sign you've lost the argument.
 
Spanky said:
Tuco, Tuco, Tuco, ya just can't bring yourself to say it, can you? Don't change, we love you just the way you are...slightly delusional, but entertaining. My numbers are correct, and if it makes the truth easier to embrace by cherry picking timeframes vs KU's body of work, you stick with that. Try checking only the even years, maybe the numbers will improve to 2.1 average tourney wins. Any way you slice it, KU underperforms. I won't hold my breath waiting for a KU fan to admit it's true. Oh, and when your rebuttals include comments about spelling? Its a sure sign you've lost the argument.
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Cherry picking time frames? That's not "cherry picking"; it's using the data that is actually RELEVANT to the discussion. Prior to '79 the field was half the size of today or less and didn't expand to this many rounds until '85. Good grief.
 
We've seen the "we can't finish ahead of you so you must be cheating" take. Now it appears it's moved on to "well yeah, you'll finish ahead of us again, but you couldn't beat those OTHER teams." You guys are the best.

The funniest part of it is when you saw KU get whipped by UK and Temple, you thought ISU had a chance in the Big 12 this year.
 
ChampFantana said:
We've seen the "we can't finish ahead of you so you must be cheating" take. Now it appears it's moved on to "well yeah, you'll finish ahead of us again, but you couldn't beat those OTHER teams." You guys are the best.

The funniest part of it is when you saw KU get whipped by UK and Temple, you thought ISU had a chance in the Big 12 this year.
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I'd still think that had we not lost to Tech.
 
ChampFantana said:
We've seen the "we can't finish ahead of you so you must be cheating" take. Now it appears it's moved on to "well yeah, you'll finish ahead of us again, but you couldn't beat those OTHER teams." You guys are the best.

The funniest part of it is when you saw KU get whipped by UK and Temple, you thought ISU had a chance in the Big 12 this year.
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You-mad-bro.png
 
Spanky said:
My numbers are correct, and if it makes the truth easier to embrace by cherry picking timeframes vs KU's body of work, you stick with that. Try checking only the even years, maybe the numbers will improve to 2.1 average tourney wins. Any way you slice it, KU underperforms. I won't hold my breath waiting for a KU fan to admit it's true.
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But your numbers aren't correct. Where did you get the less than 2 wins per tourney stat from? KU has 96 tournament wins and 43 tournament appearances. This comes out to 2.23 wins per tournament. Here are some more stats for you:

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Category[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Rank[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Stat[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]All-Time Wins[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[TD]2,117[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]All-Time Win %[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD].722[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Tournament Titles[/TD]
[TD]6th-T[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Title Game Appearances[/TD]
[TD]4th-T[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Final Four Appearances[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Elite Eight Appearances[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Sweet 16 Appearances[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Tournament Appearances[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Tournament Games Played[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD]138[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Tournament Wins[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]96[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCAA Tournament Win %[/TD]
[TD]6th[/TD]
[TD].696[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]No. 1 Seed in NCAA Tournament[/TD]
[TD]3rd-T[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Weeks Ranked as AP No. 1[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[TD]58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Weeks Ranked in AP Top 5[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[TD]297[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Weeks Ranked in AP Top 10[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]459[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Weeks Ranked in AP Polls[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[TD]648[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seasons with 35 Wins or More[/TD]
[TD]2nd-T[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seasons with 30 Wins or More[/TD]
[TD]3rd-T[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seasons with 25 Wins or More[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seasons with 20 Wins or More[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seasons with a Winning Record[/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seasons with a Non-Losing Record[/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Consecutive seasons with 30 Wins or More[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Consensus First Team All-American Selections[SUP][17][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Consensus First Team All-Americans[SUP][17][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Regular Season Conference Championships[/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]57[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
If you judge KU solely by the categories in which it is weakest (total number of championships and NCAA tourney win %), the worst you can say about KU is that it is the 6th best program ever.
 
GTO said:
The difference is we want Texas Tech. I don't think KU wants any part of Kentucky. I don't even think Kentucky has beat mid-majors this year as badly as they beat Kansas.
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The difference is that Texas Tech will be lucky to make the CBI while Kentucky is likely going to be the first undefeated national champ since the 70s. That you're even having this discussion shows how off the rails you have gone to try to argue about anything.
 
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