There was clearly an impact in losing Higgins and Noel, beyond what some here thought there would be.
How Great is 8?
- Thread starter beentherebefore
- Start date
What should people be happy with?
What does one do if the team in a season that they have no control over 'disappoints' them?
Do you consider Johnny Orr's raising of the standard for ISU basketball to be relevant? Or Hoiberg coming back? Where does the relevance start for the trajectory of a program?
Here's a hint: ISU had decent football teams so they ended up with decent records.
They're decent now and holy **** so is the record.
Some games tilt one way or another even if it's against a bad team (that CU loss was bad but considering they were at least competitive prior to that, it only took its toll as they fell off the cliff) but that's the nature of the sport.
Dropped passes and not having a real go-to game changer on the offense on the outside isn't an excuse; 'it is what it is'.
The Buffs game.... if the refs called that defensive hold in the endzone like they should have, ISU walks out of Boulder with an (albeit) ugly win. Not to mention the other 10-15 calls they got wrong. Either way, ISU should have played better... and would have won by more.
CU gives up 30 points a game. Why did ISU score only 17?
Offense had 4 TOs against BYU (1 was desperation)
ISU only scored 19 against ASU. The middling teams in the conference are averaging about 29 ppg. With an offense that is just average for the conference, ISU wins that game.
Cinci...yeah...the defense had a bad half and put the team in a bad spot.
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Using Orr as an example, he did do a lot to make the program relevant and - I would argue even more importantly - get the fan base excited about basketball. But if you look at his record over those years, it's not all that impressive.
It took the Floyd and Eustachy years, then Hoiberg, and now TJ to really raise it to the next level.
Had we just accepted Orr's success as "hey, at least we're not terrible anymore" we'd be a middle of the road Big 12 team geeking out over an 11 seed every few years.
So you are absolutely correct that it's relevant. In the sense that it was a step towards more success. But it was certainly not the end of the road.
As i've stated several times, these things are not mutually exclusive. You can appreciate an 8 win season for what it is given the historical perspective of our program, but also be frustrated that we did not do better given the opportunity to do so.
So basically the fact that we sucked for decades requires me and others in the fan base to just accept the missed opportunities this year? What a way to build a program. Certainly a recipe for success.
I guarantee you that Campell and others in the program do not view the world this way.
Good question. Like many things in life, it's a matter of perspective. I tend to look at ISU's season-by-season records and measure each individual season with a long-view historical perspective. To me, this means looking at our history from about the 1970s onward. It's also important to look at the change in schedules and change in conference composition during that time. We now play 12 games, instead of 11 as it was for the 1970s to early 2000s if I recall correctly. So, 8 wins is easier to reach with 12 games than 11. That needs to be factored in. I think we have to also factor in the conference strength. The sad reality is that our conference is slightly easier now with OU and UT gone, than it was in the 1970s to 2023. So, that suggests to me that 8 wins is not as much of an achievement as it was before. On the other hand, we used to have 4 nonconference games instead of 3, and that meant that one more game was easier than in the past. Therefore, I kind of settle on 8-4 being equivalent to a 7.5 - 4.5 record if played in 2023 and prior. It's well-above our historical mean.
I also think the people who view success or failure through a much more narrow "recent lens" are being reasonable as well. Thus, I can understand the argument someone is making that 8-4 is not as successful of an individual season given recent history.
So, going forward, I think 8-4 is an acceptable season like you said, with a 10-2 every five years or so reasonable and would be great fun to have! I also think it's reasonable to expect a 6 - 6 or 5 - 7 season every five years or so. That's pretty demanding on Campbell though to average 8-4 for the rest of his tenure given historical trends, and I hope the loud mouths are quieter and not foolish with how good we have it if it ends up being worst than that.
Cyclonepride
Thought Police
Since we're not in the room and we're imagining what was said or not said, and to an extent, imagining what the problem was, I am going to imagine that it would be reasonable for the staff to think that Rocco was going to rise to the occasion as he has done so to an amazing degree throughout his career. There seems to be a physical component to that as well.
At any rate, it's hard to expect the staff to be totally prepared for one of the best quarterbacks in program history to suddenly do a 180 midseason. Whatever the problems were, they did succeed in sorting it out together.
Someone can be happy with 8 wins this season because... we overcame injuries... had a decent win in Ireland and beat a decent Arizona team... whatever they want.
If the argument for being happy with this season is simply we used to suck a long time ago... I would say that is silly.
I don't get why some people are upset with 8 wins. Before the season started I felt 7-9 wins was the most realistic outcome given the unknowns at WR. That was before injuries decimated the secondary. And yes, every team deals with injuries, but it's not common for injuries to occur at the same position
And every season will have a few games that could go either way. I felt Iowa State stole the TCU game, but could had beaten Colorado. But then we are just playing the "woulda, coulda shoulda" game.
8 wins for this team is right where they should be IMO, which is a great thing to be saying given where this program has been historically. The bar has been raised. It's far better having these lofty expectations rather than being happy to win a single conference game
And every season will have a few games that could go either way. I felt Iowa State stole the TCU game, but could had beaten Colorado. But then we are just playing the "woulda, coulda shoulda" game.
8 wins for this team is right where they should be IMO, which is a great thing to be saying given where this program has been historically. The bar has been raised. It's far better having these lofty expectations rather than being happy to win a single conference game
Why? It can't be because the players available don't have the type of speed available to make bigger plays or consistency in catching?
There a5re a lot of coulda beens to this season, but I think us ending up at 8-4 despite missed opportunities solidifies us as an established program Through this decade, we're 24th in the country in win percentage https://mikefarrellsports.com/college/best-worst-p4-teams-of-this-decade-look-at-the-numbers/
I think the problems on offense were due to our kicker going down, our receivers not developing as we hoped, and I believe Rocco was injured during the losing stretch. The injuries on defense have been discussed. I still believe we have a program that can compete for conference championships.
Football is supposed to be fun. Be happy with what we have. Look what happened to Nebraska.
I think the problems on offense were due to our kicker going down, our receivers not developing as we hoped, and I believe Rocco was injured during the losing stretch. The injuries on defense have been discussed. I still believe we have a program that can compete for conference championships.
Football is supposed to be fun. Be happy with what we have. Look what happened to Nebraska.
Whether the bar needs to be raised still keeps the past in basketball relevant though.
Dan McCarney broke through and finally started winning somewhat consistently, so he's relevant too right?
ISU is generally going to be an 7-8ish win program, with getting 10ish wins here and there. I don't know how anyone can just assume it's going to up a level unless the recruiting takes a major step up, which is not likely.
That wasn't my point. I am sorry for not articulating it correctly. My whole point is: what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your post? Some sort of 'rebellion'? Hope that one of the coaches is watching and suddenly realizes they made mistakes? Commiserate?
It's an honest question and not meant to be offensive, but rather for you to question its purpose.
