MLB: Home-Plate collisions
- Thread starter RandomFan
- Start date
Pete Rose basically ended Ray Fosse's career when he ran into him at home plate in the 1970 all star game. I don't know how you can change the potential for collisions at home. It's part of the game.
If you dont want to get hit, dont block the plate. It is part of the game and there are ways to avoid if if you are the catcher. ie - stand in front and reach back once you catch it.
To me it looked like this is exactly what Posey tried to do.
Here's the video, I paused it at :37 and it looks pretty clear to me that Cousins had a path to the plate.
Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | FLA@SF: Posey helped off after collision at home - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia
After seeing it I agree he is in front of the plate. The runner when after him and not the plate.
Part of the game. If the catcher is going to block the plate, the only option the runner has is to go through the catcher to get to the plate. If the play isn't close, the catcher has no excuse for blocking the plate, either because he won't catch the ball to make the play and he's just interfering with the base runner, or because he has the ball and the runner is meat at the plate anyway.
If MLB is going to eliminate collisions at the plate, they had better include a clause about obstructing the baserunner to keep it fair.
If MLB is going to eliminate collisions at the plate, they had better include a clause about obstructing the baserunner to keep it fair.
It's easy to look back at something not in live speed and say he had other options. He didn't go out of his way to hit Posey. He simply made a split second decision of what he thought was his best option.
Had Posey been on his feet we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
He most definitily DID go out of his way to hit Posey, but that's a legit play at the plate to try and dislodge the ball from the catcher. I think that element is what will be discussed. The simplest solution would be to just make home like any other base where the runner can't intentionlly take out the fielder and the fielder can't obstruct the runner. I'm not advocating for that because I like the excitement of plays at the plate, but I wouldn't be suprised if something like that happens with how valuable these players are to the club (especially monetarily) these days.
It's definitely part of the game, but fines and suspensions should be levied after the fact if the contact was intentional and unnecessary. Particularly when the dbag initiating contact is a .158 career minor leaguer and the guy that got injured as a result is the reigning rookie of the year and the mvp of this current Giants team.
What really got Posey hurt was missing the ball. I believe had he caught it, he would have been better able to defend himself. But, dropping it caused that one second of hesitation that got him in the position to be drilled even worse. Either way, the runner had the entire back slide of the plate more than available to him to slide to. He chose instead to initiate contact, and for that he should be fined and possibly suspended...
What really got Posey hurt was missing the ball. I believe had he caught it, he would have been better able to defend himself. But, dropping it caused that one second of hesitation that got him in the position to be drilled even worse. Either way, the runner had the entire back slide of the plate more than available to him to slide to. He chose instead to initiate contact, and for that he should be fined and possibly suspended...
So if Buster Posey did the same thing to another teams back-up catcher everyone would be screaming how good of a play it was.
So many thing wrong with this post. The idea of giving preferential treatment to Posey because he was the rookie of the year ludicrous. Sports aren't supposed to give preferential treatment to any player because he is better. Guys work their tails off (including umps) to get to the majors. Once they get there they are going to work their tails off to stay. Cousins was running into home with the ball coming to the plate. he was hustling and did the smart thing per the rules of the game...he made sure that the catcher wasn't going to be able to hold on to the ball. sliding around the back side is a risky play. If posey catches the ball it is likely that Cousins gets tagged out while sliding.
Finally, the reason posey got injured was his poor footwork. Like many people, here and elsewhere, have said...If he would've been up on his feet he would've just fallen back. Cousins went high on Posey. He didn't go for the legs or anything like that. If Posey would've been up on his feet, he would've just been knocked back.
And one more thing. Posey is lucky that he didn't get knocked out the way he dove backwards towards the plate. He put is head at risk with that move.
You're flat out wrong here. He had an EASY path to the back of the plate (where he should be sliding anyways). He's running on the foul line and Posey is inside the line, he had to go out of his way as the line goes to the back of the plate. The contact is made in front of the plate. Posey can't block the plate from way out front. If Posey was blocking the plate, contact should've caused him to fall onto the plate. As you can clearly see in the attachment, home plate is clearly visible.
I still argue that if he would've slid to the outside and posey caught the ball he would've been out.
Its tragic that Posey got hurt but its part of the game. If we make it so that there aren't plays at the plate, then we might as well start giving out participation trophies to the losing pitcher during the game. Why not make it an instant run if you get hit by a pitch. That's a violent play that isn't necessary where probably more people get injured during that play than plays at the plate.
Lets go ahead and ban celebrations because Kendry Morales' injury wasn't necessary.
While we are at it lets say that if you are turning a double play then the runner has to immediately drop down to the ground and not slide. That way the shortstop and 2nd basemen are protected from getting taken out.
See what happens when you start making rules based on injuries. It starts taking away from the game. Posey's injury was a freak accident but I am sure that Giant players have tried to take out the catcher at the plate as well.
Malicious contact isn't part of the game. That's about the same as head hunting in the NFL.
Your comparisons are all awful. There's a HUGE difference between a HBP and a play at the plate. Many HBP's aren't by intent. That base runner went out of his way to cause the collision.
Kendry Morales hurt no one but himself. BIG difference.
Sliding in to break up a double play isn't nearly on the same level of dangerous as straight up plowing the catcher on a full head of steam.
I'm all about the catcher being in play if he sits in front of the plate (hell, I did it in high school and had multiple times I was part of contact at the plate). However, this base runner went in with the intent to run over the catcher. That's not part of the game. Posey gave him the ENTIRE plate to slide to, and he's going to be safe if he slides properly because Posey won't be able to reach him. He should've been in foul territory and slide about 6 feet from the plate and touched the back on his slide by.
Twins fans would argue this point. Same type of situation where the player who got injured had improper feet placement.
Thought this was kind of interesting.
Sport Science: Plate Collisions - ESPN Video - ESPN
I don't care too much about baseball honestly, but collisions at home do seem totally out of place when you look at pretty much everything else about the sport.
Sport Science: Plate Collisions - ESPN Video - ESPN
I don't care too much about baseball honestly, but collisions at home do seem totally out of place when you look at pretty much everything else about the sport.
And they'd be wrong. Anyone with any amount of common sense will realize that a player sliding into you (even with spikes on) isn't nearly as dangerous as a guy hitting you like a middle linebacker would. The shortstop/second baseman also knows they can jump and avoid (for the most part) being taken out. The catcher is left in no man's land because he has to be within reasonable distance of the runner because of the tag. Nishioka could've just as easily touched and stepped behind (in relation to first base) second base and thrown to first.
I'd be willing to bet the ratio of catcher's hit/injured is a lot higher than the amount of middle infielders hit/injured.
Lastly, and this kind of builds upon my last post, if running over the catcher is "part of the game" why don't base stealers attempt to take out the middle infielder receiving the ball? Why is it limited only to the catcher? Posey did exactly as a second baseman would (attempt to field the ball in front of the base) and if it was a middle infielder that got run over, there's no doubt in my mind most people would say it was unnecessary and a bush league play.
This is the biggest point, and is why I think this will be changed eventually, whether I like it or not. Why are the rules at home plate (in terms of both obstruction by the catcher and contact by the runner) different than at any other base? I'm looking for a reason other than "it's always been that way".
Catcher is probably one of the toughest positions to replace for a club mid-season because of the relationship with the pitching staff and is very similar in terms of value to the QB of an NFL team. Eventually the MLB owners are going to want a rule change to protect their enormous investments.
