Friday 5: Big 12 expansion

Currently Available:
1) Cincinnati -WVU travel partner
2) Memphis -WVU/Cinci travel partner
3) Houston -fits the mold of "will grow into the conference"
4) CSU -like this move rather than going into FL
5) BYU -really don't want to add (too far west imo), but better than the FL options imo

Pipedream, yet semi-realistic​ (in the fact that in my dreams pigs fly, and pigs are real right?)
1) Colorado -wants to come back after it realizes life in the PAC-12 sucks
2) Mizzou -same reasons as CU, but apply to SEC
3) Arkansas -Nebby had no problem ditching tradition, why can't Arkansas do the same thing to the SEC?
4) Cincinnati -reaching out to WVU
5) Memphis -Eastward, ho!
 
More what I think will happen, but here goes:

1. BYU (hopefully NOT just football only)
2. Houston (too much political pressure already being applied)
3. Cincinnati (nice partner for WVU; good hoops; location balances out league a bit)
4. Memphis/UCONN: (probably whichever one puts forth a better plan / agrees to better negotiated terms). I kinda prefer Memphis here, as I live in St. Louis and its a fairly easy drive.
 
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Memphis. FedEx money, edge into SEC territory.
Houston. Big city and in Texas.
UCF. Betting on them being a team of the future and they know entertainment.
Cincinnati. Big city, edge into Big 10 country.
Colorado State. Again, betting on the future and a big market that is bailing on the Buffaloes.
 
Assuming we don't get any old Big 12 teams to come back....

1. BYU- great facilities, and huge nationwide following
2. Cincy- big market city, helps WV, good football and basketball teams
3. Memphis- good sized market, decent teams, FedEx money, good location
4. Boise State- good teams, doesn't leave BYU on an island

5. Houston- I wouldn't mind adding them due to 4th largest TV market, but not sure about another Texas school?


If Colorado and Missouri wanted back in.....

1. Missouri
2. BYU
3. Colorado
4. Cincy
 
Not a big fan of any off the schools mentioned other than BYU. BYU is the only schools that has shown P5 attendance levels consistently over time - averaging around $60k fans at their home game over the past 4 years. I realize that the goal of expansion is to maximize TV revenue, but IMO fans in stands is a good indicator a high number of fans are also watching on TV's. The problem with BYU, we are repeating the mistake when we added WVU. WVU is out on an island compare to the rest of the Big 12. If we add BYU, we are now creating a new island out in Provo. IMO if we add BYU, we need to be prepared to go with a 16 team conference and add 2 schools among New Mexico, UNLV, CSU or SDSU.

Whereas is we go east, we fill in the footprint between the most Big 12 schools and WVU. The problem is all those schools are suspect. They don't already have the pedigree to be P5 schools. If they did they would have been included in the previous round of expansion.

Houston - great potential as they are in a recruiting hotbed and large TV market. But they have one of the lowest average home attendance over the last 4 years of any team being considered. Even with their outstanding 2015 season, they only drew 34k fans. They only drew 24k in 2013.

Memphis - drew 44k in 2015, but 24k in 2012 and 28k in 2013. Their TV market is no where close to Houston, but maybe it opens a new recruiting area for Big12 (maybe). Coach that was successful is gone.

Cincy - makes the most sense as they are a partner school for WVU. They have solid athletic teams, other than just looking at FB. The TV market is solid and they are building a new stadium. However, in 2 of the last 4 years they drew less than 30k fans to their games. Although 37k in 2015 is OK.

UCF - Horrible football team in 2015 with zero wins. However, they are just a couple years removed from bowl win. In 2013 they drew 42k fans, but last year during the winless season that dropped to 30k. Large TV market and gives visibility to Florida market for Big 12. I don't think this helps recruiting as most schools already have a presence. In fact it may make UCF a more viable option when ISU and UCF are targeting the same kid.

Temple - They are a mirror image of Houston, just on east coast. One of the largest TV markets. They had a great year in 2015 and averaged 44k fans at home games (that # is distorted by 65k+ for ND and PSU). The prior 3 years, they didn't average 25k fans at home games & they play at Eagles Stadium.

UConn - Their value is as an outstanding mens and womens basketball school.

Personally, BYU is the only schools that give Texas and OU a reason to stay in the Big 12 long term. Sure Texas governor is making case for Houston, but in the end is that going to keep OU in the Big 12. I think not.

One could take the perspective, who cares if any of the schools are really qualified to be in a P5 conference. We have a TV contract that is going distribute equal amount of revenue for any school added. Why not add 4-6 schools and payout the new schools a lower share, providing a revenue escalator to existing schools? Makes sense in the short term, but these are the same TV Networks we are going to want to pay huge rights fees in 2024. If I am ESPN or FOX, I would consider that in my negotiation in 2024. Texas and OU might not care, because without an extended GOR, they are off to the Big 10 or SEC.
 
1. Cincinnati
2. Memphis
3. Houston
4. UCF/USF
5. ECU


ECU? That is a school that we haven't heard much about in this discussion. Care to elaborate on why you picked them? Do you live in Greenville?
 
I just don't see OU going to SEC as it would be very very political to move there without Okie st..and SEC has policy to not have 2 teams in same state not to mention it would make no sense to grab okie st when they would have OU..OU has not chance at the BIG just strictly from an academic standpoint. BIG presidents could care less at this point about adding powerful OU cause BIG is already powerful. They care about academics and research a lot and it's worth a lot more. Texas to BIG sure or PAC I just have a really really hard time with TExas just abandoning their OU rivalry along with abandoning Texas Tech..The TExas legislature would freak and it would all turn into a huge political disaster.
 
Who I think will be added:
BYU
Cincy
CSU
Memphis

Long Shots
Nebby
Colorado
Houston (Why would texas want more challenges, they're already the 3rd maybe 4th best team in Texas)

Really Long Shots
U of A
ASU
 
I agree with the "Go Big" crowd - go all out to figure out if any former members want back in and they get seated at the table first and then any PAC12 schools or other P5 schools (BYU) but I imagine only PAC12 are disgruntled. If the conference can only get two or three P5 level schools stop there - its okay to have an uneven number and it leaves a spot for maybe a PAC12 school that just didn't want to pull the trigger.

CU
Mizoo
BYU - if you can get those 3 stop there but if you can get any other PAC12 schools do so.
No need to add any non P5 schools because I think they will be available later if the Big12 wants them. I would be shocked if Big10 or SEC are after any of these small fish.
 
If old B12 members included:

Mizzou
Colorado
BYU
Cincy
UCONN

If no P5:

BYU
Cincy
UCONN
Memphis
Houston (TX school, don't want)

Don't think CSU is a good option. About like Northern IL or Temple level of interest.
 
I really think attracting P5 defectors is unrealistic. The Old Man may have his sources, but my hunch is these are football people who long for the good old days, and not people with the clout to drive their schools to change conferences twice inside of a decade. I think Houston is a must to preempt incursion by other leagu. I also prescribe to the theory that the addition of West Virginia tipped the cards on the geographic preference for Big 12 expansion. With that in mind, here is my top 5:

  1. Houston
  2. Memphis
  3. Cincinati
  4. Connecticut
  5. East Carolina
 
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I do not want to let in any of the defectors. They had their chance and out of pure arrogance they are regretting it. (Not that I wouldn't want ISU to bounce of the Big 10 if a slot opened up).

I dont think I would want CSU in the Big 12 since athletically they have been pathetic in every sport, but it would be a huge middle finger to CU.

I guess my top 5 are,

#1 Cincinnati - average to good football and basketball for decades, big city, helps WV with traveling, and good academics

#2 BYU - also good athletics for the past few decades, nationwide brand, adds Utah market

#3 Houston - A program on the rise, and would help wrestle the Houston market back to Big 12 country from the SEC's ever-growing grasp

#4 and #5 I would love to try and poach Arizona / ASU - That would help bring credibility to expansion while weakening the PAC-12
 
I would love to see a P5 school or schools come over, like Arizona and ASU, improbable but possible as that may be, with BYU and Colorado State. It would make geopolitical sense.

I could give a crap about WVU. They'd leave in a minute if invited elsewhere. Good partners today only because of mutual needs.

Houston makes sense only for Houston and Texas politics. We don't need another TCU type program in Texas.

And those who would suggest Memphis, WTH guys? Their academics are so bad as to not even be ranked by USNews. They have nothing going for them, not even their own stadium. Please.
 
To all of those not wanting another Texas school...

The more P5 Texas schools there are, the more watered down each of them are, therefore making them more beatable. A Texas team this bad would have been unbelievable a few short years ago. But the rising relevance of TCU, A&M, and Baylor have hurt them. Add another school that is on the rise, like Houston, and you now have 6 P5 schools to take recruits from each other.

Believe it or not, the more P5 Texas schools, the better for us IMO.