"Flexible time off"

[EnhancedFujita]

I don't really get why FTO would be better. At most places you need management approval to use your PTO. But now with FTO you don't have a bank of time that builds up. So if you have a jerk manager that doesn't grant you time off then you're missing out on a benefit, because if you did PTO, at least you were still given the time in your bank that you could eventually cash out.

 

[pfgemployee]

Maybe it will play out different but I could see this causing issues for everyone involved.

Management will now need decide what's appropriate.

Employees will get pissed at each other. Your best employees won't take as much as your worst employees.

To be fair, in the time I've been there they have treated their employees well so it may be worrying about nothing.

 

[Clonefan32]

I'm just going to chime in to say that this makes me really glad to be self employed. Carry on.

 

[NorthCyd]

My sisters employer is going to this as well. They had been not paying OT so by doing this they don't have to give them a raise or pay them OT but they get "Flex time" what I interpret as what used to be known as "Comp Time".

Flex time and comp time are two different things in my work place. Comp time is a bank of hours I earn instead of getting payed overtime, and flex time is shifting hours around within a pay period but you still get your normal total number of hours within the pay period.

 

[NorthCyd]

Do you work in a place that is responding to the new overtime law?

No, not in my case.

 

[throwittoblythe]

At its core, it's supposed to be about trusting your employees. It's supposed to be a sign that the management of the company trusts everyone to act like adults. If you abuse it and take off every week without getting your work done, then you shouldn't be there. Again, this is theory.

Others have already identified the struggles with this...it comes down to getting that message to everyone in the company. So, if your boss understands it differently than the HR dept, then you could get hosed.

Virgin just issued a "no vacation policy" within the last month. What they screwed up is the letter from Richard Branson essentially said "this is so you can take off as much time as you need. As long as you are up to date on all your projects and you don't have any outstanding tasks, you can take time off." Who can really say that ever? If you have everything up to date and you have no outstanding tasks, you're essentially irrelevant, no?

 

[dmclone]

If you have everything up to date and you have no outstanding tasks, you're essentially irrelevant, no?

True. If I take 9 weeks off a year does that mean I need more work? If I take 2 weeks off does that mean I'm over worked? If my department is having record growth am I being rewarded by having less vacation? I'm sure this decision wasn't something they decided overnight but for such a conservative company, it seems a little out there. On the other hand, if I'm a new employee this sounds pretty great.

 

[isufbcurt]

I'm just going to chime in to say that this makes me really glad to be self employed. Carry on.

Same here.


Ok so am I way off base here with how this works? Employee needs to work more than 40 hours or they can't take time off? An employee who regularly works 60 hours can take more time off than an employee who works 45 hours?

Sorry I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this idea. In a time when more companies are promoting "work life balance" and giving employees more PTO this seems to be doing the opposite. I would think this would be a a negative for trying to attract new employess

 

[mdk2isu]

At its core, it's supposed to be about trusting your employees. It's supposed to be a sign that the management of the company trusts everyone to act like adults. If you abuse it and take off every week without getting your work done, then you shouldn't be there. Again, this is theory.

Others have already identified the struggles with this...it comes down to getting that message to everyone in the company. So, if your boss understands it differently than the HR dept, then you could get hosed.

Virgin just issued a "no vacation policy" within the last month. What they screwed up is the letter from Richard Branson essentially said "this is so you can take off as much time as you need. As long as you are up to date on all your projects and you don't have any outstanding tasks, you can take time off." Who can really say that ever? If you have everything up to date and you have no outstanding tasks, you're essentially irrelevant, no?

I look at it more like this: I have project X to do. Project Y is on the horizon but isn't able to be started until next Wednesday. I finish project X today at noon. If I want, since I have my project completed and no outstanding task, I can take off at noon today and take off Monday and Tuesday. Not irrelevant, rewarding to people who get their stuff done.

 

[Judoka]

Flex time and comp time are two different things in my work place. Comp time is a bank of hours I earn instead of getting payed overtime, and flex time is shifting hours around within a pay period but you still get your normal total number of hours within the pay period.

Yeah, I'm a little confused by the OP. I'm in the same situation as you, I have flex/comp time so I don't have to worry about stuff like taking PTO for a doctor's appointment, I just stay late or come in early some other day that pay period to make up the difference. But that's separate from PTO. Having flex time instead of PTO would essentially be a pay cut and turn the job in to something that provides zero vacation. I feel like the way OP's company is using the term "flex time" isn't the same as what a lot of us are used to.

 

[Clonefan32]

At its core, it's supposed to be about trusting your employees. It's supposed to be a sign that the management of the company trusts everyone to act like adults. If you abuse it and take off every week without getting your work done, then you shouldn't be there. Again, this is theory.

Others have already identified the struggles with this...it comes down to getting that message to everyone in the company. So, if your boss understands it differently than the HR dept, then you could get hosed.

Virgin just issued a "no vacation policy" within the last month. What they screwed up is the letter from Richard Branson essentially said "this is so you can take off as much time as you need. As long as you are up to date on all your projects and you don't have any outstanding tasks, you can take time off." Who can really say that ever? If you have everything up to date and you have no outstanding tasks, you're essentially irrelevant, no?

Sure seems like a good policy, in theory. Gives people an incentive to be efficient and do their jobs well so they can leave. I've always struggled with the concept of a 40 hour work week. If you don't have anything to do, or if you aren't at your most efficient, why sit at your desk for 8 hours, if you are disciplined enough to make sure things still get done?

I worked at an office before that informally implemented this. As long as you were where you needed to be and maintained good quality of work, no one was keeping track of your hours. However, over time, it created a ton of resentment in the office because some people abused it, while others literally sat at their desk doing nothing until their 8 hour day was up. It created a very odd work environment.

Again, glad to be self-employed now so if, say, you can't focus because of the Cubs game, you can call it a day and make the time/work up later.

 

[isu22andy]

I might be in the minority here but if Im not in the busy season, I dont really ASK my boss, I TELL my boss Im taking off. I signed on for those days off, Im going to use them when I want to if the work load is not heavy.

 

[pfgemployee]

Big company so it could be different for others but here is how I see it.

In my small area of 5 or so people:

Lets say you are planning a week long trip 3 months out. You check the department calendar and no one else is taking time off. No one is going to have a problem with that scenario. You do this 2 or 3 times a year and give plenty of warning and no one will have an issue.

Everyone in my area has over 10 years except me so they all would use 5 weeks a year of PTO. How are my co-workers going to feel if I take 9 weeks off next year (I wouldn't)? What about the guy in my area that has worked for the company for 25 years and is always involved in big projects. How is he going to feel if he feels like he can only take 2 weeks?

 

[TBT]

.

Everyone in my area has over 10 years except me so they all would use 5 weeks a year of PTO. How are my co-workers going to feel if I take 9 weeks off next year (I wouldn't)? What about the guy in my area that has worked for the company for 25 years and is always involved in big projects. How is he going to feel if he feels like he can only take 2 weeks?

It really is a person-to-person thing. I work with 2 women who have FMLA. One has maybe taken an extra 3 weeks off (she just had a baby), while the other one hasn't worked a full week since early July for "anxiety" issues. Not to demean anyone who deals with anxiety, but the job isn't very stressful.

I can understand both sides, difficult to have a balance when you have people who abuse it all.

 

[CloniesForLife]

I look at it more like this: I have project X to do. Project Y is on the horizon but isn't able to be started until next Wednesday. I finish project X today at noon. If I want, since I have my project completed and no outstanding task, I can take off at noon today and take off Monday and Tuesday. Not irrelevant, rewarding to people who get their stuff done.

Who ever just has one project going on at a time? I always have multiple things going on. Not sure I'd ever have any time where all my tasks are completed. Definitely prefer PTO.

Then again maybe if I spent less time on CF I could get it all done

 

[KnappShack]

PTO has been eliminated for folks who reach a certain level where I'm at.

They don't accrue PTO. If you need time off then you just take it. So the bank doesn't have that unpaid liability sitting on the books.

I tend to not take days off. It was nice getting a good check when I left my job. Looks like those days are ending

 

[Gunnerclone]

I was talking to some people last night that are having to make this switch. It sounded like with FTO there was no longer a bank of time and you could just take time off whenever as long as your supervisor approved and your work was getting done. Seems kind of nice on the surface, but I think its probably just a way to cut an additional benefit from people. The company will see huge savings from people that have large banks of PTO cashed out when they leave employment.

This.

 

[Gunnerclone]

PTO has been eliminated for folks who reach a certain level where I'm at.

They don't accrue PTO. If you need time off then you just take it. So the bank doesn't have that unpaid liability sitting on the books.

I tend to not take days off. It was nice getting a good check when I left my job. Looks like those days are ending

And This.

It's all bottom line stuff dressed up in "work/life balance". I assume this would also stop retirees from pushing out retirement by months by using banked time off, thereby lowering Pension payment requirements and being able to get replacement done more easily.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

we have this. days off are days off regardless of why you are gone.

 

[throwittoblythe]

I'm really enjoying this discussion. If anyone is interested, check out "Under New Management" by David Burkus. There's a whole chapter on this topic. He also talks about all the new things companies are trying like: pay people to quit, getting rid of open offices, and having parties for people when they quit.

Back to the topic at hand...the challenge with these programs is the implementation. It works in an idealistic sense. If you have a trust-based culture that is based on collaboration and not competition, it should work. If not, people get resentful and/or start to abuse the program. It's not about how many hours you work, its about what you feel works for you for balance. It's an effort to create a uniform, individually based policy (which is an oxymoron)

I'm in favor of these programs. I take the approach that someone previously said: if I've got my stuff up to date and no one else needs help with anything, then I'm heading out for the day. However, I do recognize these only work with the right kind of culture in place.