Does Campbell really do more with less???

[Omaha Cy]

Former 1990s Husker player and current radio host Damon Benning asked a talented RB from Northwestern during Big 10 media day (Paraphrasing) "At what point are you tired of Northwestern being labeled as an underdog or overachiever?". The response was "yesterday". Despite Northwestern winning 10 games 3 times the last decade and also posting a 9 win season they are still viewed IMO by a decent amount of people in the Big 10 as overachievers. A Fitz does more with less mantra is prevalent. I don't follow NW closely enough to know a lot about the program and it's moving parts. A hawk fan I know acknowledges that any year they have a good QB, they tend to be a legitimate problem for the Big 10.

As for ISU, Purdy, Hall, Kolar and many defensive players are just as talented as anyone else in the league. How many times have we seen a streak of lightning by the name of Vance, Eisworth, Rose run down some fast skill player from OU/UT in the backfield for a loss or no gain? That's the norm now. Were Butler & Montgomery not as talented as anyone else? They gave ISU a pair of problematic skillsets for DCs around the Big 12, and ISU had a stout defense in 17/18.

I believe that OU, UT, OSU do have somewhat more talented players not seeing the field compared to ISU's depth chart. Quality and/or quantity. Obviously this is not a great Texas team. OU may be finding their stride right now, but they also have played bums the last few weeks. Jury is still out on how good OU is. Regardless of how good or not good those teams are from a historical standpoint, I don't feel like ISU is at a major disadvantage anywhere on the field vs them.

This is not a referendum about Campbell and how he should be winning 10+ games a year without question, or how ISU missed the boat the last couple season by not having a breakout season. But I do feel we should be moving past the narrative of "doing more with less". ISU also has state of the art facilities for player training. The opportunities for greatness at ISU are real and they are now with this roster and staff. Not to say ISU can't be better. I think the main issue is consistency for ISU. ISU seems to play at a high level for a quarter or a half, but often does not have a great game from start to finish. Perhaps something that OU or OSU are more capable of.

If you agree that ISU does more with less, than what is needed to have "equal" with the others at the top?

 

[cycloneworld]

Campbell takes good players that fit his culture and blueprint. And makes them better and turns them into great players.

Teams like Texas and Michigan take a collection of great players and can’t figure out how to fully integrate them into their system. So they will always be “good” but rarely great.

Give me Campbell’s approach all day long.

 

[Drew0311]

I think the difference is the backups. Generally the OU and Texas type teams are so deep if someone gets hurt the drop off is way less than a Northwester or Iowa State. Our top guys are just as good as their top guys and usually were underrated out of high school. We generally have to develope better and thus our “doing more with less” is semi accurate

 

[cstrunk]

If you agree that ISU does more with less, than what is needed to have "equal" with the others at the top?

Wins. ISU has not had a double digit win season. We don't have Championships. We don't have big bowl wins. This is new territory for us.

Come back in 5 years and we'll talk.

 

[Aclone]

If you agree that ISU does more with less, than what is needed to have "equal" with the others at the top?

I don’t understand this question. Not only is ISU at the top, we are alone at the top. By at least a full game. Thus by definition, we are already equal to ourselves.

 

[tolfbfan]

OU and Texas are not fighting for recruits with the Ivy Leagues, MAC, and Military Academies. Has improved, but to not understand the difference is amazing. To not understand the "perception" that big time recruits have when getting offers from different schools is crazy. Why did this thread have to happen the day after having so much fun.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Wins. ISU has not had a double digit win season. We don't have Championships. We don't have big bowl wins. This is new territory for us.

Come back in 5 years and we'll talk.

We also count our pennies. Couch change within the Texas athletic would fund the majority of our athletic department.

 

[Neptune78]

Anybody have a list for number of 4 stars for each Big12 team? That would go a long way in answering the OP's question.

 

[Omaha Cy]

OU and Texas are not fighting for recruits with the Ivy Leagues, MAC, and Military Academies. Has improved, but to not understand the difference is amazing. To not understand the "perception" that big time recruits have when getting offers from different schools is crazy. Why did this thread have to happen the day after having so much fun.

I think perception of the recruits ISU gets is off. I agree that ISU does have to battle with G5 teams for a recruit occasionally. Campbell clearly has a type of player that fits the system in his mind. A 3 star recruit elsewhere could actually be a 4 of 5 star recruit as it translates to ISU's system/culture. I believe that counts for something.

Not sure how well the highest rated recruits have done at ISU. Lazard was great. Was it Darrius Darks(?) that was the 4 star that didn't even make it 4 years or was basically bench fodder his last year or 2. Seemed he got mixed messages from his parents and probably didn't have the best guidance.

 

[Aclone]

Has improved, but to not understand the difference is amazing. To not understand the "perception" that big time recruits have when getting offers from different schools is crazy.

Perhaps the question could have been phrased better.

*Please note that I’ve been following recruiting since 1979. And this staff does offer the “big time” recruits. They just haven’t been completely successful yet.

 

[LivntheCyLife]

If you agree that ISU does more with less, than what is needed to have "equal" with the others at the top?

I'll be interested to see how this current group of Cyclones is viewed in the NFL draft. ISU has had one 1st round draft pick in its history, George Amundson in 1973. OU has had 44 and UT has had 43.

I'd be curious about how you feel about Snyder at Kansas State and Ferentz at Iowa. Both with two conference championships. Do you think those two were equal at their peaks with OU or Ohio St? They had some stars that were the best players especially when they got to be upper classmen, but I don't think they every reached the same top-to-bottom talent. Iowa State hasn't even won a conference championship yet.

 

[Aclone]

Was it Darrius Darks(?) that was the 4 star that didn't even make it 4 years or was basically bench fodder his last year or 2. Seemed he got mixed messages from his parents and probably didn't have the best guidance.

Sed Johnson.

 

[Omaha Cy]

I don’t understand this question. Not only is ISU at the top, we are alone at the top. By at least a full game. Thus by definition, we are already equal to ourselves.

Its the perception of OU and UT annually having the best players/quantity of the best players. At this juncture I don't feel like they have much of anything that ISU doesn't already possess on the roster..

 

[CyCal]

Anybody have a list for number of 4 stars for each Big12 team? That would go a long way in answering the OP's question.

From 247sports.com

2020 class:
Texas 1 5-star, 14 4-star
Oklahoma 14 4-star
TCU 1 5-star 5 4 star
Iowa State, West Virginia, Oklahoma State 1 4-star

2019 class:
Texas 2 5-star 15 4-star
Oklahoma 3 5-star 13 4-star
TCU 4 4-star
Oklahoma State 3 4-star
Iowa State, Baylor, West Virginia 2 4-star

2018 class:
Texas 2 5-star, 17 4-star
Oklahoma 1 5-star, 12 4-star
Baylor 6 4-star
TCU 5 4-star
Oklahoma State, West Virginia, Kansas 2 4-star
Iowa State, Texas Tech 1 4-star

2017 class:
Oklahoma 18 4-star
Texas 7 4-star
TCU 4 4-star
Oklahoma State 2 4-star
Texas Tech 1 4-star
(Iowa State no 4-stars)

 

[flycy]

They eye test seeing the two teams on the field yesterday says yes Campbell is doing more with less. Look at the size of our WR and DB compared to Texas. If Texas got the full potential out of its players, it wouldn't be close. That's the current difference between Texas and Alabama, somehow Saaban gets 5 stars to work. The talent gap has significantly closed, and hopefully success and culture continue to narrow the gap. The goal is to be like the perennial 9-10 win KSU team and have top half of the conference talent. We can't currently, consistently compete with Alabama, but could get there.

 

[Busch__Latte]

Anybody have a list for number of 4 stars for each Big12 team? That would go a long way in answering the OP's question.

Just looking at the 2019 and 2020 classes, Texas got 30 four stars, 3 five star recruits and Ou got 27 four stars and 3 five stars. No one else is even close.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Another poster already mentioned it in this thread, but CMC is building the program very similar to the approach used by Bill Snyder and Kirk Ferentz. Hate to compliment those two gentlemen, but we have to grudgingly admit their programs competed at high levels at their peak. Of course recruiting is important, but culture and player development are equally critical.

CMC's advantage is he seems to be able to relate to this generation much better than BS or KF have EVER done.

 

[Omaha Cy]

I'll be interested to see how this current group of Cyclones is viewed in the NFL draft. ISU has had one 1st round draft pick in its history, George Amundson in 1973. OU has had 44 and UT has had 43.

I'd be curious about how you feel about Snyder at Kansas State and Ferentz at Iowa. Both with two conference championships. Do you think those two were equal at their peaks with OU or Ohio St? They had some stars that were the best players especially when they got to be upper classmen, but I don't think they every reached the same top-to-bottom talent. Iowa State hasn't even won a conference championship yet.

That is a tough question concerning Snyder/Ferentz best teams matching up with the best from OU/OSU. Id say no they weren't as good. Not by a wide margin, but just not quite there.

I think they are different in the sense that Iowa has a lot more players drafted than KSU did with Snyder. I think Iowa is clearly a better developmental program to get player to the NFL. Especially lineman and LBs. Snyder IMO ran a better system to maximize potential, limit the opponents strength, and ultimately win games. Snyder also had a history of murdering bad conference teams. Ferentz not so much. Doesn't really tell a story other than coaching philosophies as I believe Snyder adjusts more to the opponent, Kirk does not.

Ultimately both know what they want/need in recruits. Iowa ran into some trouble in 05/06 classes when they started to get the high profile recruits on the heel of their 2002/03/04 success that did not fit the Iowa system/culture.

 

[twojman]

Yes, ISU is doing more with less and always will unless we can somehow double our annual athletics budget...and suddenly be located in a recruiting hotbed...and suddenly develop a storied tradition...and are featured on ESPN/FOX every night with the likes of Alabama, OU Ohio St etc. So yeah, ISU will always have to do more with less just like K-State under Snyder and now Kleiman. This is just the way it is.

 

[Omaha Cy]

They eye test seeing the two teams on the field yesterday says yes Campbell is doing more with less. Look at the size of our WR and DB compared to Texas. If Texas got the full potential out of its players, it wouldn't be close. That's the current difference between Texas and Alabama, somehow Saaban gets 5 stars to work. The talent gap has significantly closed, and hopefully success and culture continue to narrow the gap. The goal is to be like the perennial 9-10 win KSU team and have top half of the conference talent. We can't currently, consistently compete with Alabama, but could get there.

Good point on eye test. I do look at other programs O-lineman and the size of them at times dwarfs what ISU has. That WR yesterday Eagles was an incredible mismatch for ISU. Does Campbell prefer the smaller corners in general. However Butler didn't look or perform any different than Eagles. Eagles stats are fairly pedestrian this year compated to stuff Butler did though. Perhaps he just feasted on an advantageous match-up vs ISU smaller DBs..

As for Bama, I hope ISU NEVER has to play a Saban coached Bama. That program every years looks like an impenetrable wall.