I'm not so sure about that. Had Fred not started flirting with the NBA two seasons before he left, his recruiting would have picked up big time. Other coaches knew he wanted the NBA and used it against him in recruiting. He would have gotten us the players had it not been for that. He was a rock star, a household name, the style of play is what recruits wanted, Hilton was rocking, etc.. The Hoiberg machine stopped simply because of the NBA factor. Had he wanted to be here long term and recruits knew that, it would have had different trajectory in what the rosters would have looked liked.
Darian DeVries
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I'm not so sure about that. Had Fred not started flirting with the NBA two seasons before he left, his recruiting would have picked up big time. Other coaches knew he wanted the NBA and used it against him in recruiting. He would have gotten us the players had it not been for that. He was a rock star, a household name, the style of play is what recruits wanted, Hilton was rocking, etc.. The Hoiberg machine stopped simply because of the NBA factor. Had he wanted to be here long term and recruits knew that, it would have had different trajectory in what the rosters would have looked liked.
Good morning Erik,
I mentioned it in another thread yesterday, and I don't know how old you are, but I'm 46 and about 35 years ago locked in to college basketball as my favorite sport to watch. I've been religiously watching the NCAA tournament ever since then, even if it doesn't involve either ISU or UNI. Yes, I'm quite aware and have been since I watched Johnny Orr's team beat #2 Michigan up in Minneapolis back in 1986 that upsets do happen in March, but hey, thanks for walking me through that.
And I do feel there is quite the double standard among Cyclone fans who are not willing to extend the "these games happen" mindset of a courtesy to CSP that they do with CFH, even though that '19 team wasn't as good as the '15 team and the '19 OSU team was a h*ll of a lot better than the '15 UAB team. I do think the comparison of how the collective fan base has reacted to these two different losses from two different coaches is worth mentioning.
And yes....I know about the goodwill that CFH had accrued. Again though, CSP has the same number of Big 12 tournament titles that CFH has, and he also has the same number of Sweet 16 berths. Yes, I know, I know, he got his S 16 with Fred's players, and he had to go through the ignominy of beating a couple of double-digit seeds to do it. I guess I forgot that we have oh so many Sweet 16 teams in school history (all of 5 going back to the 1980's) that the fan base should be entitled to decide which ones of those are REALLY worth celebrating.
Erik, you really used to be one of my favorite posters on here. I used to really enjoy interacting with you, and I looked forward to reading what you had to write on a variety of subjects. FWIW, I like to think that we would get along just fine if we ever met in person, and I still do enjoy and agree with a lot of what you write, particularly when it comes to history and politics, and even still basketball occasionally. But seriously, you seem to have developed a personal grudge towards those posters who don't match your level of vitriol towards CSP. If I'm misinterpreting that please tell me so, but that's how it comes across lately with how aggressive you've been about it the last couple of seasons.
I completely agree with the recruiting perspective; it was leverage used against Fred.
I seem to recall we had the lead with C Diallo (sp?) - I had heard he bluntly asked Fred if he was staying and got a reply that didn't make him feel confident.
bravo; that was really elegant ! Hope you and Erik can reconcile.
Also, maybe some of the political posting cows will adopt your attitude when posting.
But they didn’t lose Morris or Naz. So I don’t know what people thought matters? And taking a step back is better than falling off a cliff.
Yeah it'd be naive to think there wouldn't have been some sort of speed bump along Fred's journey here, however the speed bump would've been miniscule. A trip to the NIT or a really high seed most likely.
Fred had a knack for figuring out how the pieces fit which is the complete opposite of Prohm. He would've had a plan, however you have to be fully invested and prepared in order to plan out the future, obviously, and Fred was not.
Ok, but would he have won a conference game? I think a Fred year with a speedbump would have been better than 60% of CSP's time here.
Honestly it is a waste of time to argue what the future would have been had Fred wanted to stick around longer. We all know we were a place for him to gain HC experience and use that to propel him into the NBA. We all agree with that.
Knowing that, I believe that is why he went the grad transfer route. I believe had he thought he was at his forever job, he would have looked at HS players long term (after grabbing Royce and a few to get him rolling). I believe he was willing to deal with the transfer head aches knowing he only had to deal with it for a few years.
Knowing that, I believe that is why he went the grad transfer route. I believe had he thought he was at his forever job, he would have looked at HS players long term (after grabbing Royce and a few to get him rolling). I believe he was willing to deal with the transfer head aches knowing he only had to deal with it for a few years.
Fred's biggest speedbump was his desire to get the **** out of Ames as soon as he could. After Monte/Matt Thomas year, Fred's high school signees over the next two years were Clayton Custer, Nick Noskowiak, Simeon Carter, and Brady Ernst.
This is important to mention every time people want to cherry pick the "good old days" for Fred.
I am not quite sure that magic worked his last year -- six future NBA guys plus two really good/won some conference honors college players and... still didn't win the Big 12 and bowed out early to a cruddy UAB team.
I think a lot of you are going to be perpetually disappointed by the program from now on, though, considering everything is judged against an idealized Hoiberg tenure (the one a few of you have described to me where Hoiberg planned to stick around Ames long-term and was able to unlock some truly elite talent while there, and maybe one who ended up with a more well-rounded staff than what he had at the end) instead of the muddier reality.
Yep, it called wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
Nebraska right now is a good lesson.
I stand corrected. I'll leave it up for context though. I remember Noskowiak as Fred's white whale he had to get that year. Maybe that was Prohm, I don't know. So Fred's HS recruitment only amounted to Custer his last two years?
EDIT: Noskowiak was a Hoiberg recruit
Custer and Tsalmpouris were the two freshmen the last full Fred year.
TJ came back on April 1.
Nick Weiler-Babb committed on April 12.
Noskowiak committed on April 26.
Fred was announced as the Bulls' new head man on June 2.
So the two Nicks were officially Fred guys... unless you think Fred was already out the door by that point, which makes them either general Iowa State commits or commits to TJ as the de facto interim head coach.
Ernst and Carter were Prohm guys, though I would argue both of them were taken under some level of duress given Prohm's late hire and just desperately needing big men with only Niang and McKay around.
That summer was complicated.
But, to be fair though, for whomever recruited them, IIRC both Custer and Noskowiak were pretty highly regarded; Top 150 I think? Noskowiak had all sorts of really messed-up baggage (and for whatever else, I hope he's got that behind him), and while Custer may or may not have developed into a Big 12 caliber player he sure ended up doing very well for himself.
I mean didn't we win the Big 12 in '00-'01 and lose to Hampton on a buzzer beater in the NCAA Tourney? Virginia won the ACC in 2018 and got EMBARRASSED by UMBC in the first round. I don't necessarily think we should judge teams solely on whether they won the conference title outright as well as how they do in the NCAA tournament. You know how crazy that thing is.
Also, we need to remember that Fred would've had that exact same team back the next year AND he would've actually had recruits to bring in. Not Brady Ernst, Carter, or the kid from Mt. Pleasant. I think it's wishful thinking to think Fred would've made us into a perennial top-5 team every year. But we would've consistently been in the top-20 and our arguments on here would consist of why we got 2nd in the Big 12 instead of getting 1st. Yeah, I'd take that.
Fred recruits I remember.
Dorsey walker
Custer
Nick N
Sledge
Gibson
Cook
mcknight
Godfrey
The hometown hero, taking over for McD, the style of play, the comebacks, the most NCAA tourney appearances in a row, the Big 12 tourney fun, etc all played into it.
You told me earlier that you aren’t saying Fred would have fallen off a cliff but I’m not sure what else you are trying to say. People are saying he would have kept us as a perennial top 25 team with opportunities to jump up to a contender every once in a while. You are saying that is way to cardinal colored glasses recollection. So what do you actually think they would have done?
