Cytown Update

[Cyclonsin]

Best is definitely subjective, but one can certainly look at their sales numbers over the last few years that might tell some competing stories about the directions TG and Big Grove have been headed:

https://www.axios.com/local/des-moines/2022/09/29/iowa-craft-brews-one-billion-dollars-economic-impact

https://www.axios.com/local/des-moines/2025/07/17/toppling-goliath-leads-iowa-beer-sales

In 2021 Toppling Goliath was producing about 42k barrels of beer. Big Grove Produced about 19k.

In 2024 TG produced 35k (16% decrease) and Big Grove produced 34k (73% increase).

Just last year was a 7% drop for TG, which is more than the 4% national drop in the industry.

Big Grove may not be as much of a darling of the beer snobs, but their products are certainly crowd-pleasers.

For what it's worth, I've always thought TG was a bit overrated and their popularity is largely a product of producing a damn good imperial stout & IIPAs at a time when few breweries were. Same as 3 Floyd's, Surly, Stone, etc.

And I do like Big Grove, but beer sales/growth are almost always a product of something other than the quality of the liquid itself. Otherwise Pulpit Rock would be the biggest brewery in Decorah.

On the other hand, I've never liked Confluence at all and cannot for the life of me figure out why they're so popular other than having the first really impactful taproom in the DSM area. Which further illustrates my point about beer quality being a relatively minimal factor in a brewery's success.

 

[hoosman]

Seems like a bold, risky project. I hope it works. If you build it, people will come? 5 types of customers: students/ISU staff, alumni/fans, townies, on-site hotel and office workers, and I35 travelers. Alumni is huge but there is only one game every 2 weeks. Taking business from the mall, downtown, or Campustown would rob Peter to pay Paul. Options 4 and 5 would expand the community base. ISU supporters are not particularly wealthy , so getting more spend/visitor is not guaranteed.

 

[Pat]

Seems like a bold, risky project. I hope it works. If you build it, people will come? 5 types of customers: students/ISU staff, alumni/fans, townies, on-site hotel and office workers, and I35 travelers. Alumni is huge but there is only one game every 2 weeks. Taking business from the mall, downtown, or Campustown would rob Peter to pay Paul. Options 4 and 5 would expand the community base. ISU supporters are not particularly wealthy , so getting more spend/visitor is not guaranteed.

The net new for Ames would be concerts and conferences. If those don’t pan out, it will be tough sledding for the project as a whole. Unrelated, if something local takes business from Boulder Tap House (and is a step up), I have no problem with that.

 

[baller21]

On the other hand, I've never liked Confluence at all and cannot for the life of me figure out why they're so popular other than having the first really impactful taproom in the DSM area. Which further illustrates my point about beer quality being a relatively minimal factor in a brewery's success.

WTF, now THAT is a WILD take. You sure you even like beer?

 

[cycloneG]

WTF, now THAT is a WILD take. You sure you even like beer?

I agree with that take. Confluence beer is mid. It's ok but nothing special.

 

[baller21]

I agree with that take. Confluence beer is mid. It's ok but nothing special.

Well some of you have terrible taste buds I guess.

 

[MJ271]

Seems like a bold, risky project. I hope it works. If you build it, people will come? 5 types of customers: students/ISU staff, alumni/fans, townies, on-site hotel and office workers, and I35 travelers. Alumni is huge but there is only one game every 2 weeks. Taking business from the mall, downtown, or Campustown would rob Peter to pay Paul. Options 4 and 5 would expand the community base. ISU supporters are not particularly wealthy , so getting more spend/visitor is not guaranteed.

The net new for Ames would be concerts and conferences. If those don’t pan out, it will be tough sledding for the project as a whole. Unrelated, if something local takes business from Boulder Tap House (and is a step up), I have no problem with that.

I think these comments in conjunction are spot on. I think the project has relatively high probability of success from the ISU side, because CyTown should be a pretty attractive place to locate a business (close proximity to HWY30, central location in town, available parking during the week).

But the key for the community as a whole is whether it expands the pie or just transfers the pie. I'm optimistic for the former, because of some of the efforts they've made already to get additional events (the state basketball tournament, for example) and the fact that there are a lot of people that are in that area as commuters or for other non-sporting events (career fairs, Alumni Center and CY Stephens events, All-State, FFA convention, and more) for whom it will suddenly be a lot easier to grab a drink or a meal in Ames before heading back to wherever they are from.

 

[Frak]

I agree with almost everything here, but can't get past calling Big Grove & Confluence the best breweries in Iowa. That's a WILD opinion when either of them would be no better than 3rd in Decorah alone.

I feel like TG has kind of fallen behind the times. I haven't been to Decorah, so I don't know about the others. I'm going by cans on the shelves. Big Grove hit the jackpot with the Citra Surfer. And Confluence has a bunch of good beers. Psuedo Sue is fine, but not really my thing.

 

[StPaulCyclone]

I think these comments in conjunction are spot on. I think the project has relatively high probability of success from the ISU side, because CyTown should be a pretty attractive place to locate a business (close proximity to HWY30, central location in town, available parking during the week).

But the key for the community as a whole is whether it expands the pie or just transfers the pie. I'm optimistic for the former, because of some of the efforts they've made already to get additional events (the state basketball tournament, for example) and the fact that there are a lot of people that are in that area as commuters or for other non-sporting events (career fairs, Alumni Center and CY Stephens events, All-State, FFA convention, and more) for whom it will suddenly be a lot easier to grab a drink or a meal in Ames before heading back to wherever they are from.

Agreed! Some people are too focused on FB games and not all the other events that you mention, plus all the other sporting events at Hilton: MBB, WBB, VB, Wrestling, etc. the goal is to regain the ISU Center’s status as a central IA destination for conferences, events, etc.. hoping that more concerts are scheduled for JTS, Hilton, etc..

 

[Cyclonsin]

Well some of you have terrible taste buds I guess.

View attachment 152918

The US Beer Open is essentially a paid advertisement more than any meaningful medal. Unless your beer is utter dog ****, you're walking home with a bunch of medals. Because it costs a good deal to enter beers into the competition and they want as many breweries as possible to submit a ton of entrants.

Win something at the GABF, and we'll talk more.

Keep in mind, I don't think their beer is bad... It's just ok.

Source: was a professional brewer in Minnesota & Wisconsin for the better part of a decade.

 

[BCClone]

Agreed! Some people are too focused on FB games and not all the other events that you mention, plus all the other sporting events at Hilton: MBB, WBB, VB, Wrestling, etc. the goal is to regain the ISU Center’s status as a central IA destination for conferences, events, etc.. hoping that more concerts are scheduled for JTS, Hilton, etc..

Yeah, cytown is being built for the other 358 or so days that there aren’t football games.

 

[jcisuclones]

I think 30 Hop is maxed out financially with all their expansion they have done lately.

They bought land in Waukee/Clive off Hickman across from the Stivers Ford a few years prior to Covid with the intentions to build another 30Hop, but obviously that's been delayed. They do still own the land.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

Agreed! Some people are too focused on FB games and not all the other events that you mention, plus all the other sporting events at Hilton: MBB, WBB, VB, Wrestling, etc. the goal is to regain the ISU Center’s status as a central IA destination for conferences, events, etc.. hoping that more concerts are scheduled for JTS, Hilton, etc..

State BB boys' tournament, schemen continuing ed, research park and more. They are estimating 800 visitors/employees per day, year round for the Clinic.

 

[RustShack]

Well some of you have terrible taste buds I guess.

View attachment 152918

I’ve tried a few “best Burger in the state” and “best tenderloin in the state” award winners a few times among other things. They aren’t always the best in the state lol. Sometimes not even better than average.

 

[Cytown12]

Hey there is at least one good thing from there—My bride came from there!

So what your saying is you rescued her

 

[Cytown12]

That's the best run craft brewery in Des Moines imo. They don't have the beer selection of Confluence, but what they have is all really good, and the food is far better than any others out there.

I’m not an IPA person but I enjoy the IPAs Lua makes.

 

[Cytown12]

For what it's worth, I've always thought TG was a bit overrated and their popularity is largely a product of producing a damn good imperial stout & IIPAs at a time when few breweries were. Same as 3 Floyd's, Surly, Stone, etc.

And I do like Big Grove, but beer sales/growth are almost always a product of something other than the quality of the liquid itself. Otherwise Pulpit Rock would be the biggest brewery in Decorah.

On the other hand, I've never liked Confluence at all and cannot for the life of me figure out why they're so popular other than having the first really impactful taproom in the DSM area. Which further illustrates my point about beer quality being a relatively minimal factor in a brewery's success.

If you think Confluence makes bad beers you don’t know what good beers are. They make so many different styles and all usually pretty dang good.

 

[ackatch]

For what it's worth, I've always thought TG was a bit overrated and their popularity is largely a product of producing a damn good imperial stout & IIPAs at a time when few breweries were. Same as 3 Floyd's, Surly, Stone, etc.

And I do like Big Grove, but beer sales/growth are almost always a product of something other than the quality of the liquid itself. Otherwise Pulpit Rock would be the biggest brewery in Decorah.

On the other hand, I've never liked Confluence at all and cannot for the life of me figure out why they're so popular other than having the first really impactful taproom in the DSM area. Which further illustrates my point about beer quality being a relatively minimal factor in a brewery's success.

This is the worst take I've ever seen on this board and it's not even close.

 

[Cyclonsin]

If you think Confluence makes bad beers you don’t know what good beers are. They make so many different styles and all usually pretty dang good.

I don't think they make bad beers. But a brewery can make consistently average-to-good beer and still be extremely overrated. A lot of legacy craft breweries (by that Confluence is one) fall into this category (Summit, Sierra Nevada, Left Hand, etc). It's ok, but it certainly doesn't make a brewery one of the best in the state. And Confluence isn't even the best in Des Moines. But to each their own. There's a tremendous amount of variety for a reason!

 

[Cytown12]

I don't think they make bad beers. But a brewery can make consistently average-to-good beer and still be extremely overrated. A lot of legacy craft breweries (by that Confluence is one) fall into this category (Summit, Sierra Nevada, Left Hand, etc). It's ok, but it certainly doesn't make a brewery one of the best in the state. And Confluence isn't even the best in Des Moines. But to each their own. There's a tremendous amount of variety for a reason!

Are you confusing Exile with confluence? confluence is easily in the top 5 breweries in the state and would say maybe Lua would be the only DSM brewery better than Confluence.