Comments from a Baylor fan

[CRAZYGREG]

I grew up very anti WBB. Never even had the slightest interest in going to a game. Then in 2007 I was in OKC for the mens tournament and of course, they lost their first game. We were deciding what to do with the rest of our night - We heard that the women were playing in a couple of hours a couple hundred feet away from where we were standing. We decided... what the heck we don't have anything better to do. So we went to the game and now I am one of the biggest and most loyal fans that they have - all thanks to the tournaments being in the same city.
It is a travesty what they have done moving the two tournaments apart.

 

[mred]

I decided to look up average attendance, so here it is:

3116 -- 1997 -- KC
2129 -- 1998 -- KC
5161 -- 1999 -- KC
4994 -- 2000 -- KC (final game was a sellout)
5350 -- 2001 -- KC
5492 -- 2002 -- KC
5937 -- 2003 -- Dallas
5809 -- 2004 -- Dallas
6108 -- 2005 -- KC
4259 -- 2006 -- Dallas
8165 -- 2007 -- OKC (OU v ISU in the final - game was a sellout)
4032 -- 2008 -- KC
5919 -- 2009 -- OKC
4235 -- 2010 -- KC
4233 -- 2011 -- KC
4567 -- 2012 -- KC
7037 -- 2013 -- Dallas (Griner-led Baylor's only in-state tournament)
4876 -- 2014 -- OKC

I don't think this proves anything. I just thought I'd put it out there.

Starting in 2012, there was one fewer first-round session (due to a decrease to 10 teams), which might slightly help the average attendance.

 

[Buster28]

It would be interesting to note how far ISU got in the years where KC hosted. I'm guessing (my memory isn't working that well today and I don't have time this morning to look stuff up) that the lower average KC attendances were when Iowa State made an early exit (Kansas State, too). When ISU was doing well and making at least the semis every year (1998-2002-ish), the average numbers were higher. 1999 seems to be the point where attendance in the Big 12 took off league-wide. It wasn't long after that when the Big 12 became the first conference to reach 1,000,000 fans in total attendance for WBB, a mark that was repeated multiple times.

 

[theshadow]

Yesterday's semifinal session was atrocious. Baylor, Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State playing on a Sunday afternoon. All schools within 5 hours of Dallas. Worst semifinal attendance since the era when that session was on a Thursday night.

Lowest-attended semifinal sessions:
3,500 (KC 1998, Thursday) - KU, ISU, OSU, TTU
3,565 (KC 1997, Thursday) - KU, KSU, CU, UT
4,068 (KC 2005, Thursday) - BU, UT, KSU, TTU
4,212 (Dallas 2006, Thursday) - BU, OU, A&M, MU
4,580 (Dallas 2015, Sunday) - BU, UT, OU, OSU

 

[theshadow]

It would be interesting to note how far ISU got in the years where KC hosted.

Generally speaking, the highest-attended games/sessions/tournaments have been when the highest-seeded teams played close to home, and advanced at least to the semifinals: OU in OKC; ISU in KC; BU in DAL.

On the flip side, the worst ones have been teams from farther away with traditionally poor followings advancing to later rounds -- mainly the stretch from 2008-12 when it was A&M vs. (insert team here) for the championship in KC or OKC.

 

[laminak]

Then why not just play men's-women's doubleheaders during the season? That would get "higher attendance" for the women too, if that's what matters. You'd have "access" to see both teams on the same night!
The answer is because this isn't high school any more; it's BCS conference athletics.

Many games during the regular season are weekday nights, so a doubleheader wouldn't be feasible for fans to watch both.

Many games during the regular season are played at a home arena where a majority of the fans there are local enough to attend games.

When the WBB was in the same city as the MBB tournament, they still had separate venues and ticket admissions. They didn't piggyback on the men's venues and tickets.

The point is that when you're having a tournament, most fans are going to have to travel. Most fans care about MBB over WBB, so will probably travel to see the MBB and not the WBB. When they're in the same city, fans have access to both and will support both. When they are in different cities, those that travel will probably support only one, and MBB is generally more popular than WBB and will get the crowds.

 

[ISU71]

Talked with a couple of big money folks from baylor. Think the tournament in Dallas is a joke. Say this is the last time they will come. Believe it should be in KC and a joint tournament. Interesting perspective to say the least.

Yes, but Kimmy had to have it her way!

Everyone with half a brain knew having the WBB Tourney would be a flat out bomb. First of all Texans don't give two hoots about basketball. Second, splitting it makes no sense since it is a proven fact that many fans attending the MBB tourney in KC (or OKC) will also go to the WBB tourney 3 blocks up the street and they can buy tickets at the door.

Lets hope and pray that smarter heads will prevail and put the Dallas based Big 12 BB tournament(s) in the coffin where they belong. KC should have it 4 out of 5 years. I have zero problem with it being in OKC one year out of five. It should never be in Texas, ever.

JMO.

 

[Tornado man]

The point is that when you're having a tournament, most fans are going to have to travel. Most fans care about MBB over WBB, so will probably travel to see the MBB and not the WBB. When they're in the same city, fans have access to both and will support both. When they are in different cities, those that travel will probably support only one, and MBB is generally more popular than WBB and will get the crowds.

I have no problem with having the tournaments in the same city - never have said otherwise. Kansas City is the best venue, as they support basketball above all others. OKC is maybe second.
The problem is operating both men's and women's tourneys at the same time. Municipal Auditorium, while nicely maintained and restored, is not a suitable venue for the women's conference tournament, sorry.
No other BCS conference runs both in the same city at the same time. For good reason.

 

[Royalclone]

Generally speaking, the highest-attended games/sessions/tournaments have been when the highest-seeded teams played close to home, and advanced at least to the semifinals: OU in OKC; ISU in KC; BU in DAL.

On the flip side, the worst ones have been teams from farther away with traditionally poor followings advancing to later rounds -- mainly the stretch from 2008-12 when it was A&M vs. (insert team here) for the championship in KC or OKC.

actually, the highest avg attendance in KC was in 2005 when KSU won it and ISU played two games as the 5th seed, not making the semis. Ironically, the semis was one of the lowest in attendance, but the KSU fans showed up for the finals.

the highest in OKC and Dallas involved in-state schools with dominant post players (Courtney Pais and Griner). But each played ISU in the final. You want good attendance? Hope ISU makes it to the final.

 

[wonkadog]

I have no problem with having the tournaments in the same city - never have said otherwise. Kansas City is the best venue, as they support basketball above all others. OKC is maybe second.
The problem is operating both men's and women's tourneys at the same time. Municipal Auditorium, while nicely maintained and restored, is not a suitable venue for the women's conference tournament, sorry.
No other BCS conference runs both in the same city at the same time. For good reason.

You have yet to put one out there.

I miss being able to go to the women's games and I'm sure there are hundreds others (if not more) that feel the same way but due to financial or work restraints, can't make it to both tournaments.

 

[CRAZYGREG]

You have yet to put one out there.

I miss being able to go to the women's games and I'm sure there are hundreds others (if not more) that feel the same way but due to financial or work restraints, can't make it to both tournaments.

There are 4 straight weeks of tournaments (Big 12 and NCAA) - it makes it VERY difficult with work and money. It was difficult even when they were together to do three straight weeks.

3/6-3/9 Women's Big 12
3/11-3/14 Men's Big 12
3/19-3/23 Men's and Women's NCAA
3/26-3/30 Men's and Women's NCAA (Hopefully)

Super difficult to make it to 4 straight weeks of events

 

[jbhtexas]

Municipal Auditorium, while nicely maintained and restored, is not a suitable venue for the women's conference tournament, sorry.

What makes it unsuitable? Insufficient locker rooms or concessions? Seating?

 

[swarthmoreCY]

What makes it unsuitable? Insufficient locker rooms or concessions? Seating?

Not as large as the men's tournament arena.

 

[CRAZYGREG]

Not as large as the men's tournament arena.

Why does it need to be?

 

[Buster28]

Why does it need to be?

It doesn't. Anything larger and it would look exactly like the arena in Dallas - empty.

 

[CyFan61]

Having both at the Sprint Center the same week was an interesting idea, but I prefer the Spring + Municipal setup in Kansas City, and I've yet to hear a good reason why we shouldn't do that. It was the best thing for fans and for players. If one team lost and the other team from the same school was still playing, they could go support them in person.

 

[MNCyGuy]

I have no problem with having the tournaments in the same city - never have said otherwise. Kansas City is the best venue, as they support basketball above all others. OKC is maybe second.
The problem is operating both men's and women's tourneys at the same time. Municipal Auditorium, while nicely maintained and restored, is not a suitable venue for the women's conference tournament, sorry.
No other BCS conference runs both in the same city at the same time. For good reason.

I always had fun when the women's tourney was at Municipal. Is it as nice as sprint center? No, of course not, but I'd rather have a tourney that people actually turn out for than a really nice empty arena.

 

[runbikeswim]

would kemper be more suitable to the women's tournament than municipal?

As a KC person, I love municipal, love it. It is fun to watch bball there too, but it isn't the level of arena the others are.

Kemper might do, though.

Bowlsby comments though hint that it isn't about the fans, but the TV income.

 

[MNCyGuy]

would kemper be more suitable to the women's tournament than municipal?

As a KC person, I love municipal, love it. It is fun to watch bball there too, but it isn't the level of arena the others are.

Kemper might do, though.

Bowlsby comments though hint that it isn't about the fans, but the TV income.

They had stopped using Kemper before my time following ISU, but isn't in a different part of town? My recollection from going to Municipal was that it was relatively close to the men's tourney festivities.

 

[runbikeswim]

They had stopped using Kemper before my time following ISU, but isn't in a different part of town? My recollection from going to Municipal was that it was relatively close to the men's tourney festivities.

Kemper was the boy's arena, it is bigger and a more decent facility, but it is in the old stockyards district. Spring and Muni are walking distance. Kemper is a 10-20 minute cab/drive. Though KC Convention Center provided buses between Kemper and the downtown hotels. It has been a long time since I have been in Muni, so, I am unsure of its current state, but it was in really bad bad shape when the women's tourney was there. Bad seating, bad ceiling, bad restrooms, very very bad PA/scoreboard --- however, it is kind of like Allen Fieldhouse, some of that speaks to the history/charm of the place, but nowadays, if it isn't like Cowboy's stadium, it isn't good enough.