Big 12 vs. Pac 12

[BryceC]

Here's one of the things that bums me out about this whole thing - The Pac 12 will probably be fine. Why? People are talking about poaching Pac 12 schools to the Big 10. Why?

Again, attendance figures aren't everything and obviously that's actually not what's driving all of this realignment, but 2019 figures had ISU with an average attendance of 59,794, #21.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2019.pdf

Only Washington from the Pac 12 had a higher attendance than ISU and USC is the only other Pac 12 member in the top 30.

Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado, UCLA, Utah, Oregon St., Stanford, and Washington State all averaged less than 50k fans per game. That's 9 of the 12 schools.

Of the remaining 8 Big 12 schools, the average attendance is 49,378. The Pac 12 average attendance is 46,080.

 

[Daserop]

Here's one of the things that bums me out about this whole thing - The Pac 12 will probably be fine. Why? People are talking about poaching Pac 12 schools to the Big 10. Why?

Again, attendance figures aren't everything and obviously that's actually not what's driving all of this realignment, but 2019 figures had ISU with an average attendance of 59,794, #21.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2019.pdf

Only Washington from the Pac 12 had a higher attendance than ISU and USC is the only other Pac 12 member in the top 30.

Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado, UCLA, Utah, Oregon St., Stanford, and Washington State all averaged less than 50k fans per game. That's 9 of the 12 schools.

Of the remaining 8 Big 12 schools, the average attendance is 49,378. The Pac 12 average attendance is 46,080.

Fan attendance is irrelevant because that doesn't provide value add (money) to the conference as a whole.

 

[BryceC]

Fan attendance is irrelevant because that doesn't provide value add (money) to the conference as a whole.

I agree and I addressed that in the post. My point simply was that, as a measure of how much fanbases do actually care, it's a pretty good measure. And there are some fanbases that really don't care that are going to be fine in all of this.

 

[Cyclones1969]

Fan attendance is irrelevant because that doesn't provide value add (money) to the conference as a whole.

The value add is people actually watching games. Iowa State has that in spades over the PAC 12 schools.

You, and some of the others, seem to keep thinking of this like it’s still 2010, where basic cable subscriptions are the only factor.

I don’t know how many times it needs to be repeated, but that’s no longer the case.

People don’t seem to realize Disney checkmated everyone. All the big 10 swagger about how rich they are, and academics matter, no longer applies. That will become clear when Ohio State and Michigan see the writing on the wall.

the academic side of their universities aren’t going to suddenly not get grants and donations. But the t shirt fan of the National brand schools will most certainly feel it when Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, and now Texas and Oklahoma pull away even further away from them.

fox now has to answer, or they will be on the outside of the big boy table. I don’t know what that means for Iowa State, but to say we bring nothing, when two years (last non covid year) ago we generated almost 60 million non tv dollars that beat almost all of pac 10 teams, and put us on par with Illinois, ahead of Rutgers Purdue and Maryland.

and that was with a 7-6 football team and a 20 loss basketball team. In normal times, those numbers would be at least 10 million higher this year, putting us ahead of even more big 10 schools

all your poor mouthing of Iowa State isn’t based in reality. You should stop

 

[Daserop]

I agree and I addressed that in the post. My point simply was that, as a measure of how much fanbases do actually care, it's a pretty good measure. And there are some fanbases that really don't care that are going to be fine in all of this.

Ahh gotcha, my mistake. Agreed with your statement (about certain fanbases not caring and still turning out fine). That one frustration I have as well.

 

[clonedude]

I’m hoping and praying right now that we end up in the PAC.

I don’t think the B1G is going to add right now, and the PAC is the only other viable option IMO.

If we don’t get B1G or PAC, we will be in really bad shape that nobody wants to see.

 

[Cyclones1969]

I’m hoping and praying right now that we end up in the PAC.

I don’t think the B1G is going to add right now, and the PAC is the only other viable option IMO.

If we don’t get B1G or PAC, we will be in really bad shape that nobody wants to see.

how long were Texas and Oklahoma in negotiations with Disney?

10 years ago how long did it take for everyone to change conferences?

this takes time. They haven’t even settled on when ut and ou will begin sec play, and what the buyout penalties will be.

there is literally nothing that can be done publicly at this time to even begin the process of where any of the 8 will end up. Everyone is working on it.

just enjoy the football season we are a month away from starting. That’s all we can do

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

PAC 12 has a major geographical advantage by being so far away from anyone and the need to still have P5 football on the west coast.

 

[AuH2O]

Ahh gotcha, my mistake. Agreed with your statement (about certain fanbases not caring and still turning out fine). That one frustration I have as well.

You can also look at TV viewership last year. ISU was similar to Oregon, USC and UW, and crushed the rest.

Eyeballs and ad value are a big problem for the PAC that ISU would help with.

 

[DeereClone]

If Oregon and USC had left the PAC they wouldn’t be fine either.

 

[NDMARTIN2015]

Here's one of the things that bums me out about this whole thing - The Pac 12 will probably be fine. Why? People are talking about poaching Pac 12 schools to the Big 10. Why?

Again, attendance figures aren't everything and obviously that's actually not what's driving all of this realignment, but 2019 figures had ISU with an average attendance of 59,794, #21.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2019.pdf

Only Washington from the Pac 12 had a higher attendance than ISU and USC is the only other Pac 12 member in the top 30.

Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado, UCLA, Utah, Oregon St., Stanford, and Washington State all averaged less than 50k fans per game. That's 9 of the 12 schools.

Of the remaining 8 Big 12 schools, the average attendance is 49,378. The Pac 12 average attendance is 46,080.

You realize that there are multiple stadiums under 46k seats, and WSU’s stadium is less than 35k. The average stadium size in the Pac 12 is like 53k.

 

[BryceC]

You realize that there are multiple stadiums under 46k seats, and WSU’s stadium is less than 35k. The average stadium size in the Pac 12 is like 53k.

Okay, thanks for adding more proof

 

[Rural]

I don't believe the PAC 12 attendance numbers, pure fantasy.

 

[OnlyCyclones]

PAC-12 is like early U.S.—weak but hard to lay gloves on due to geography. The Big 12 is like Germany, smack dab in the middle of its continental rivals. Except instead of uniting Germany, Prussia and Bavaria are joining Britain (don’t question it), and the rest of us are trying not to become Luxembourgs.

 

[OnlyCyclones]

I don't believe the PAC 12 attendance numbers, pure fantasy.

Every Pac-12 game I watched in 2019, there were huge swaths of empty seats. Only exception seemed to be Oregon.

 

[Al_4_State]

You're really making the case why it makes sense for the Pac 12 to hook up with remaining Big 12 schools.

And if you look at the entirety of the Pac 12 commish's statements, not just the "we're fine as it is" snippets, you'll see that he's hardly hiding his intentions of bringing in more schools.

And you know who will be will positioned? The biggest of those public schools, with AAU status, a Top 10 football team, 3rd highest football attendance of all combined Pac 12 and remaining Big 12 schools, and a legendary basketball arena.

 

[NDMARTIN2015]

Every Pac-12 game I watched in 2019, there were huge swaths of empty seats. Only exception seemed to be Oregon.

Isn’t it pretty common for the numbers to reflect ticket sales? I mean Kansas forces people to buy football tickets with basketball tickets, and Kansas football revenue is higher than their basketball team. The stadium is nearly empty every game.

 

[NorthCyd]

Attendance does matter. It's an indication of passion. Passionate fans are going to be willing to spend $10 bucks a month for a subscription service to watch their teams. That matters in this days market. I don't care how big a media market you live in, if you are struggling to get 30,000 people in a stadium to watch your team play, you're not going to get a lot of people in that market to shell out money for a subscription.

 

[CascadeClone]

PAC-12 is like early U.S.—weak but hard to lay gloves on due to geography. The Big 12 is like Germany, smack dab in the middle of its continental rivals. Except instead of uniting Germany, Prussia and Bavaria are joining Britain (don’t question it), and the rest of us are trying not to become Luxembourgs.

Dude, right now I feel a lot more like Belgium than Germany right now.

 

[HouClone]

how long were Texas and Oklahoma in negotiations with Disney?

10 years ago how long did it take for everyone to change conferences?

this takes time. They haven’t even settled on when ut and ou will begin sec play, and what the buyout penalties will be.

there is literally nothing that can be done publicly at this time to even begin the process of where any of the 8 will end up. Everyone is working on it.

just enjoy the football season we are a month away from starting. That’s all we can do

I agree with your take. Pointing out though that it took a very short time for Syracuse and Pittsburgh to leave the Big East for the ACC. It was less than 2 weeks. Colorado's move to the Pac went fast too.