When do you think you will buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

[dmclone]

Okay, need some opinions from folks here. leaving for the lake of the ozarks saturday, debating on whether to take my wifes Traverse of my Ford lightning. Based on my math, it would be similar to pay to charge vs paying for gas. we live just north of ames, and my Lightning is standard range. is my math way off?

Unless you enjoy driving the lightning more, I would just take the Traverse. You'll probably have to stop at least 4 times each way in the Lightning

Run it through https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ with your vehicle

I think this example kind of proves the point of owning a BEV.

1. For most people, 350+ days of the year they can get by charging at home and saving a lot of money by going that route.
2. Less than 4% of your year, you will want to either drive your ICE vehicle if you have one, or plan on adding some time to your road trip. For those trips that are 300+ miles, you may have to add an 60-90 minutes to your 9 hour drive. Then you'll have to ask yourself, can we do other things while it's charging? I just wasted an hour on Cyclone Fanatic, is my time really that valuable? If I really need to get there at a certain time, can I leave an hour early? Can I charge at my destination? No, it's not as easy as pulling into a gas station and filling up in 5 minutes, but for most people it's a very rare occurrence.

 

[simply1]

Ran a simple request through CoPilot based off loose inputs from your statement and it seems the Lightning would be better overall especially if you left the house fully charged and were able to charge at your destination. Fast chargers change that significantly if you rely heavily on them.

• If you can start full and minimize fast charging → Lightning wins
• If you prefer speed and simplicity → Traverse is easier

I’m not sure that was a necessary use of AI

 

[bos]

I’m not sure that was a necessary use of AI

It broke it down a lot more with different scenarios. I just added this part for a quick post. Not everything needs to be a book. If anything it backed up his math and reasoning.

 

[BCClone]

Okay, need some opinions from folks here. leaving for the lake of the ozarks saturday, debating on whether to take my wifes Traverse of my Ford lightning. Based on my math, it would be similar to pay to charge vs paying for gas. we live just north of ames, and my Lightning is standard range. is my math way off?

First, any young kids going with?

Second, what does your wife say? You don’t want that topic thrown at you routinely if she doesn’t want extra time/multiple stops.

 

[CascadeClone]

I'd say the propaganda from non-owners has done more damage. There are like 4 talking points that get brought up every time, but once you own one, they magically disappear.

In fairness, hose points are all good and fair questions to ask (range? whar chargers? tires? etc) when its a new and different product. And they have been the main constraints on adoption for ages really.

But people ask the questions and don't really think about the answers, how the tech has improved, and how it would (or wouldn't) work for them. That requires some thought and effort, but keep doing what you have always done requires no effort. And for some people it makes them feel smart to be contrarian/negative about something new they don't fully understand; its probably a human nature thing to keep us from dying from eating the weird mushrooms.

The real counterpoint to this is the EV ownership satisfaction rates. Once people have them, they really love them. That's the real answer, and as more people discover that and get comfortable it will grow the market share.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I'd say the propaganda from non-owners has done more damage. There are like 4 talking points that get brought up every time, but once you own one, they magically disappear.

I’d argue most of that originated from the fact huge billion dollar industries of legacy auto and oil were against it

 

[dmclone]

In fairness, hose points are all good and fair questions to ask (range? whar chargers? tires? etc) when its a new and different product. And they have been the main constraints on adoption for ages really.

But people ask the questions and don't really think about the answers, how the tech has improved, and how it would (or wouldn't) work for them. That requires some thought and effort, but keep doing what you have always done requires no effort. And for some people it makes them feel smart to be contrarian/negative about something new they don't fully understand; its probably a human nature thing to keep us from dying from eating the weird mushrooms.

The real counterpoint to this is the EV ownership satisfaction rates. Once people have them, they really love them. That's the real answer, and as more people discover that and get comfortable it will grow the market share.

Yeah, I was talking more about things like:

OMG I'm going to get trapped in a fire!
OMG, once you hit 80k miles, you'll need to replace the $50k battery!
OMG, BEV's are so bad for the environment!
OMG, there are no chargers within 5 miles of my house, beside my own garage!
The power grid is going to collapse when everyone has an EV!
You can't drive them in the cold.
I'm going to wait until Toyota releases their solid state battery
I'm not buying one until they have 500 miles of range

 

[RagingCloner]

First, any young kids going with?

Second, what does your wife say? You don’t want that topic thrown at you routinely if she doesn’t want extra time/multiple stops.

i have 3 kids coming with 8, 6, and 3.

They are fine with stopping because we can watch tv on my truck screen while we charge lol

my concern is making a 5 hour trip take almost 8

 

[FinalFourCy]

In fairness, hose points are all good and fair questions to ask (range? whar chargers? tires? etc) when its a new and different product. And they have been the main constraints on adoption for ages really.

But people ask the questions and don't really think about the answers, how the tech has improved, and how it would (or wouldn't) work for them. That requires some thought and effort, but keep doing what you have always done requires no effort. And for some people it makes them feel smart to be contrarian/negative about something new they don't fully understand; its probably a human nature thing to keep us from dying from eating the weird mushrooms.

The real counterpoint to this is the EV ownership satisfaction rates. Once people have them, they really love them. That's the real answer, and as more people discover that and get comfortable it will grow the market share.

I don’t think there’s any question EVs were politicized from the beginning. Due to the threat they were to oil and legacy automakers, as well as the Tesla shorts

People that had not owned one, or were even looking at cars, with very strong opinions on them

That’s not normal for nascent technology

If anything, new technology tends to become overly popular despite some early limitations, just because it’s the latest. A flex, if you will

Some may have been slow to adapt to smart phones because of battery or cost or initial limited functionality, but there weren’t anti smartphone

 

[CycloneDaddy]

i have 3 kids coming with 8, 6, and 3.

They are fine with stopping because we can watch tv on my truck screen while we charge lol

my concern is making a 5 hour trip take almost 8

I think you answered your own question.

 

[BryceC]

Unless you enjoy driving the lightning more, I would just take the Traverse. You'll probably have to stop at least 4 times each way in the Lightning

Run it through https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ with your vehicle

I think this example kind of proves the point of owning a BEV.

1. For most people, 350+ days of the year they can get by charging at home and saving a lot of money by going that route.
2. Less than 4% of your year, you will want to either drive your ICE vehicle if you have one, or plan on adding some time to your road trip. For those trips that are 300+ miles, you may have to add an 60-90 minutes to your 9 hour drive. Then you'll have to ask yourself, can we do other things while it's charging? I just wasted an hour on Cyclone Fanatic, is my time really that valuable? If I really need to get there at a certain time, can I leave an hour early? Can I charge at my destination? No, it's not as easy as pulling into a gas station and filling up in 5 minutes, but for most people it's a very rare occurrence.

One thing I don’t see people say much either - you’re going to save a lot of money on fuel costs.

Take that savings, then fir the 1 or 2 long driving trips most families take in a year, just rent a vehicle and save the mileage on your personal vehicle anyway.

 

[dmclone]

One thing I don’t see people say much either - you’re going to save a lot of money on fuel costs.

Take that savings, then fir the 1 or 2 long driving trips most families take in a year, just rent a vehicle and save the mileage on your personal vehicle anyway.

I hate to assume fuel savings, because everyone pays a different rate, but it usually does line up that if your electricity rates are high, so are your fuel prices. Here in the Des Moines metro, we're lucky to have have both be really cheap. The other nice thing is that my electric rates have been stable for years, where gas prices are all over the map.

On a side note, I just started doing the nightime charging for 6 cents per kWH. My 46 mile round trip to work, costs me 70 cents yesterday.

 

[CascadeClone]

Yeah, I was talking more about things like:

OMG I'm going to get trapped in a fire!
OMG, once you hit 80k miles, you'll need to replace the $50k battery!
OMG, BEV's are so bad for the environment!
OMG, there are no chargers within 5 miles of my house, beside my own garage!
The power grid is going to collapse when everyone has an EV!
You can't drive them in the cold.
I'm going to wait until Toyota releases their solid state battery
I'm not buying one until they have 500 miles of range

Oh yeah, that's all horsesh!t, made me laugh.

I can't wait for that Toyota battery though, that will be a hell of a thing. I think the Chinese have one going now, but I trust Toyota to work the bugs out, that's kinda their whole gig.

 

[BigTurk]

Have you considered taking 330 to 30 to 151? It is shorter, faster*, and there are chargers in Cedar Rapids.

This is the way we go (frequent visits to Dubuque) and I smoked that route for an EV, albeit one with the Tesla style charger.

View attachment 171283
*faster at least for us due to our location in Ankeny

Yeah, when we go to Dubuque we take that route but family lives west of Dubuque so there would be some back tracking. I need to play with the routing a bit more.

 

[dmclone]

Oh yeah, that's all horsesh!t, made me laugh.

I can't wait for that Toyota battery though, that will be a hell of a thing. I think the Chinese have one going now, but I trust Toyota to work the bugs out, that's kinda their whole gig.

Toyota has been promising solid state battery fairy tale for over 15 years. It's always two years away. I think they were promoting solid state even before they were telling us that hydrogen was the future.
2010
Toyota publicly announces it is researching solid-state EV batteries and begins collaborative research with Panasonic.


The First Promise
2017
Toyota extends its battery partnership with Panasonic and makes its first major commercial prediction, stating it aims to have solid-state batteries in production cars by the early 2020s (specifically targeting 2022).


The EV Reset
2023–Present
Toyota pivots the technology back toward fully electric vehicles. After striking a partnership with petroleum company Idemitsu to mass-produce solid electrolytes, Toyota sets a new target for commercialization in 2027 to 2028. The company projects these future batteries could eventually yield over 600 miles of range and fast-charge from 10% to 80% in 10 minutes or less.

It's always just around the corner for Toyota. I've had a great history with Japanese cars, but they are way behind when it comes to BEV's.

 

[BigTurk]

One thing I don’t see people say much either - you’re going to save a lot of money on fuel costs.

Take that savings, then fir the 1 or 2 long driving trips most families take in a year, just rent a vehicle and save the mileage on your personal vehicle anyway.

I am old enough to remember when Toyota released the first Prius and the naysayers all came out against that too. Unproven tech, it will never pay for itself, the car is ugly...ok, I agree with the ugly part. Regardless, many of those naysayers would gladly have a hybrid like the Prius now. Those Prius naysayers are now the BEV naysayers.

Anyway, as you are saying. This summer we have to drive to Indy, then Chicago, back to Indy, back to Chicago, back to Indy, then to Ankeny in a week. We are renting a van.

 

[CascadeClone]

I don’t think there’s any question EVs were politicized from the beginning. Due to the threat they were to oil and legacy automakers, as well as the Tesla shorts

People that had not owned one, or were even looking at cars, with very strong opinions on them

That’s not normal for nascent technology

If anything, new technology tends to become overly popular despite some early limitations, just because it’s the latest. A flex, if you will

Some may have been slow to adapt to smart phones because of battery or cost or initial limited functionality, but there weren’t anti smartphone

Yeah but any new tech that displaces an existing one has some level of this. There were carburetor people that thought fuel injection was dumb, typewriters are just fine who needs a computer and word processor, etc. Heck you see some of this in real time with AI slop vs "real" human output.

But I will agree with you this is bigger than most, because the stakes are bigger $$, and its also become part of our stupid culture wars bs.

 

[dmclone]

I am old enough to remember when Toyota released the first Prius and the naysayers all came out against that too. Unproven tech, it will never pay for itself, the car is ugly...ok, I agree with the ugly part. Regardless, many of those naysayers would gladly have a hybrid like the Prius now. Those Prius naysayers are now the BEV naysayers.

Anyway, as you are saying. This summer we have to drive to Indy, then Chicago, back to Indy, back to Chicago, back to Indy, then to Ankeny in a week. We are renting a van.

As a young car fan, I was definitely one of those who had a dislike for the Prius. Since then, I've gained a huge appreciation for that vehicle. I've rode in a bunch of them on Uber rides, and their reliability is legendary. It's amazing to me that the same company that came up with the Prius, is now considered a dinosaur in the industry. I guess this is how they remain so reliable.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Yeah but any new tech that displaces an existing one has some level of this. There were carburetor people that thought fuel injection was dumb, typewriters are just fine who needs a computer and word processor, etc. Heck you see some of this in real time with AI slop vs "real" human output.

But I will agree with you this is bigger than most, because the stakes are bigger $$, and its also become part of our stupid culture wars bs.

Big difference between your examples and EVs.

And that difference in politicization is that EVs much more disruptive to incumbent billions. It’s true that it’s easier to politicize things now.

We lump oil and legacy manufacturers against EV in US, but I suspect foreign interests also played a part. I remember reading nearly 10 years ago how china viewed EVs as the opening to take auto manufacturing from the west. One of the last industries they didn’t have

 

[BryceC]

As a young car fan, I was definitely one of those who had a dislike for the Prius. Since then, I've gained a huge appreciation for that vehicle. I've road in a bunch of them on Uber rides, and their reliability is legendary. It's amazing to me that the same company that came up with the Prius, is now considered a dinosaur in the industry. I guess this is how they remain so reliable.

We’ve owned two Toyotas and they just keep running. I mean their ability to just keep going every time I turn the key is unbelievable to me. I’m just super impressed and loyal to them.