Our 8-man school has 72 boys in 9,10,11 & 12th. 40 on the team. At the same per centage, how many would the 5A school have? Is it the coaching staff & communities’ fault that the kids want to play football instead of play with their phone? The same debate about competitive numbers come out of Des Moines when classification is based on enrolled numbers.
Iowa High School BEDS count 24-25
- Thread starter qwerty
- Start date
I guess I don't see the big issue of competing against A schools instead of other 8 Man teams. If you are able to compete at that level why not. This is separate from a relegation/promotion system in my mind.
I'll use kind of an extreme example here.
Grundy Center has been REALLY good for the last 5 years. Already got bumped to 1A because of the Free/Reduced Lunch thing and I can tell you that the run at being this good ends after next year. Their 8th and 9th graders simply aren't as good as the last few groups and this year's Juniors are the last really good class.
Those current 8th and 9th graders shouldn't have to play 2A just because the older kids were better than they were.
The same debate about dominating in a class and moving up a class happens at every level. Whether it’s a small 4A becoming a big 3A or the other way around, the IaHSAA has to draw a line in the sand. In our County these 2 schools who are both 8-man, came down from 11 man after both were in the playoffs regularly and made UNI-Dome trips as 11 man teams about the time they got reclassified. The team numbers didn’t drop off any but enrollment numbers did so IaHSAA classified them down to 8-man.
KidSilverhair
Well-Known Member
Schools don’t have to play 8-player because if their enrollment. Absolutely nothing prevents any school from playing up a class if they want. The IHSAA’s classification by enrollment simply establishes a floor, so schools aren‘t allowed to play a class down, but theres nothing saying a school is “too small” to play Class A
If you have 72 boys in those grades, and that is half the school, that would mean you have 144 students in those grade, average of 36 per class. You are playing schools have less than 20 students per grade. That would be just an average, and it does happen that schools have classes that have a lot more boys than girls, but that should even out over time.
The state needs to lower the BEDS number of students that are allowed to play 8 man, if you are at 36 students average per class, you should be playing 11 man football.
I haven't lived in Iowa in many years. Do different school districts that are in the same district or conference pay their coaches (head football coach) significantly different amounts? And does the support from the school district and community differ a lot between schools? I can remember growing up in Iowa when I was in elementary school and the high school basketball coach had a youth program and held camps. But he eventually left and the head basketball coach when I was in high school was much less active and only focused on the Varsity. He did not communicate, help or even watch the lower grades.
I think if a district pays more they will most likely get a better qualified coach. The community support is also helpful. But most important, in my opinion, is how active the head coach (football, basketball, baseball etc..) is in communicating expectations to lower level coaches and players, evaluating the younger players, and having the lower level coaches run a 'common system/playbook'. If the players have been running the same system/playbook for four or five years; by the time they are juniors and seniors it should be a well oiled machine/team.
I think if a district pays more they will most likely get a better qualified coach. The community support is also helpful. But most important, in my opinion, is how active the head coach (football, basketball, baseball etc..) is in communicating expectations to lower level coaches and players, evaluating the younger players, and having the lower level coaches run a 'common system/playbook'. If the players have been running the same system/playbook for four or five years; by the time they are juniors and seniors it should be a well oiled machine/team.
True, but schools understand they are going to generally win more games by dropping down and playing schools smaller than them. So if the chance is there to drop down, they are going to do it. The only thing that could stop that if it throws them into a district that increases travel, which is rare.
Coaches are generally paid a percent of the salary scale for that school, as you move up from smaller schools to bigger schools that pay would generally increase. Believe me most small schools struggle finding coaches, and those that they get generally have little or no experience. If they have success most are going to leave and move to a larger school. The Ed Thomas's and Tom Stone that have major success and stay there year after year are rare.
I went back & checked & we’re at 29 per class. Which would be 116 & 58 boys which is probably fairly accurate. Obviously, we have way above normal participation that has carried over from success at the 11 man era. I also noted checking the BEDS numbers that we are not in the top 30 8-man schools. So, no I don’t think we’re taking advantage of schools above us or directly 20 or so below us. But the bottom half of 8-man should be another class or shared programs to get numbers up. Most people that don’t follow this level don’t realize that Seniors are playing against undersized freshmen/sophomores in a mismatch which is not a good situation for anybody.
I looked at: IaHSAA classifications football. I’m not sure what the BEDs number is that cuts off A & 8-man. Looks like maybe 105 but I don’t see where it actually sets the line. I never paid attention to it before, kinda interesting. I noted Remsen St. Mary which is a power program, is close to the lowest in the low 40’s.
Not sure what the cut off lines are. I see 3 or 4 class A schools that are smaller than about 7-10 8 man schools.
I would guess that is because we are in the 2nd year of the two year cycle, and the BEDS counts are up to date. So the BEDS from this year will be used to rerank the schools after the first of the year.
It could also be that those schools have chosen to play 11 man even though they could be in 8 man if they chose to be. The cutoff is 105 in grades 9-11.
Classifications: Football | IHSAA
Classifications: FOOTBALL School enrollment numbers from each year inform the following school year’s classifications for IHSAA sanctioned sports. For football only, these numbers are used for two-year cycles. Enrollment numbers are provided by the Basic Educational Data Survey (BEDS) from the...
www.iahsaa.org
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So what you are saying is Grundy Center will of had 6 plus years of success (most schools would kill for that) and now some other teams will get a chance for some success? How is this not a good thing? Also, having a couple of subpar classes really isn't the end of the world. If GC has solid coaches it'll be just fine.
