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***Official 2023 Chicago Cubs Thread***

CyState85 said:
Imagine being the Angels trying to re-sign Ohtani. Conservatively, you would have $125 million locked up with 3 players (Rendon, Trout, Ohtani) with arguably one of the worst farm systems. That franchise would have been smart to try and trade Ohtani and Trout this season and start over.
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The Angels arguably the two best players in baseball and are treading along barely above .500

It is obvious that they aren't going to succeed with the current roster and resigning Ohtani would only handicap them further. I think the Angels missed an opportunity to build for the future by not trading him.
 
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ScottyP said:
The Angels arguably the two best players in baseball and are treading along barely above .500

It is obvious that they aren't going to succeed with the current roster and resigning Ohtani would only handicap them further. I think the Angels missed an opportunity to build for the future by not trading him.
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And what's crazy about it is they aren't paying the huge amount to Ohtani yet. They had a few year window where they could have spent and put some pieces around Trout and Ohtani and they really didn't. That Rendon contract just killed them.
 
I don't think this team can compete with the Dodgers or the Braves in a playoff scenario. Deep down I hope they are selling anything and anybody they don't plan to re-sign/keep.

But as I said earlier, should the returns prove unsatisfactory I'm totally okay with them "trying to win now" and possibly picking up some small pieces that don't cost anything of value (if that's even possible). This team is 1-2 years away from being a bonafide contender if they make the right moves and guys develop/perform as expected.
 
I think at this point the Cubs will "hold" while maybe adding some cheap rentals for the bullpen and/or corner infields spots if the deal makes sense. They won't be going after big names unless they are cost controlled past 2023 and don't require moving out any big prospect pieces. Doesn't sound like Bellinger is on the move at this point but Stroman could still be in play if they sell on anyone. At this point the safe thing to do without upsetting the fanbase is to hold and buy/sell where it makes the most sense without messing things up for the 2024 roster and beyond.

There are some guys in the minors that are going to be 40 man roster decisions by this offseason that you either have to move now or move someone to add them to the 40 to protect them from the Rule 5 draft. Bleacher Nation touched base on it in 2 articles over the weekend: https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs...e-cubs-do-with-infield-prospect-luis-vazquez/ Both Yonathan Perlaza and Luis Vazquez fit that category. Both are having good seasons at Iowa but right now are blocked in Chicago with being a corner OF and middle infielder there is no spot for them to contribute regularly. And with Perlaza the farm system already has a glut of OF prospects so could see those guys as possible prospects that get moved in a deadline deal or someone like Nelson Valazquez or Brennan Davis does and they give his 40 man spot to one of them. Neither of them are listed on the Cubs top 25 prospect list but both could have some value to a non-contending team who has a spot open now for them in the big leagues to give an opportunity.
 
CYdTracked said:
I think at this point the Cubs will "hold" while maybe adding some cheap rentals for the bullpen and/or corner infields spots if the deal makes sense. They won't be going after big names unless they are cost controlled past 2023 and don't require moving out any big prospect pieces. Doesn't sound like Bellinger is on the move at this point but Stroman could still be in play if they sell on anyone. At this point the safe thing to do without upsetting the fanbase is to hold and buy/sell where it makes the most sense without messing things up for the 2024 roster and beyond.

There are some guys in the minors that are going to be 40 man roster decisions by this offseason that you either have to move now or move someone to add them to the 40 to protect them from the Rule 5 draft. Bleacher Nation touched base on it in 2 articles over the weekend: https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs...e-cubs-do-with-infield-prospect-luis-vazquez/ Both Yonathan Perlaza and Luis Vazquez fit that category. Both are having good seasons at Iowa but right now are blocked in Chicago with being a corner OF and middle infielder there is no spot for them to contribute regularly. And with Perlaza the farm system already has a glut of OF prospects so could see those guys as possible prospects that get moved in a deadline deal or someone like Nelson Valazquez or Brennan Davis does and they give his 40 man spot to one of them. Neither of them are listed on the Cubs top 25 prospect list but both could have some value to a non-contending team who has a spot open now for them in the big leagues to give an opportunity.
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3B is a position that the Cubs don't have an answer for. Candelario is about the only trade target. What kind of prospects at third do we have in the minors?
 
ZRF said:
I don't think this team can compete with the Dodgers or the Braves in a playoff scenario. Deep down I hope they are selling anything and anybody they don't plan to re-sign/keep.

But as I said earlier, should the returns prove unsatisfactory I'm totally okay with them "trying to win now" and possibly picking up some small pieces that don't cost anything of value (if that's even possible). This team is 1-2 years away from being a bonafide contender if they make the right moves and guys develop/perform as expected.
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I just don't think you can be part of yet another sell-off. At some point you have to show winning is important. And I guess I'm not sure your measure should be Braves or Dodgers. Just making the playoffs is a big deal.
 
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ScottyP said:
3B is a position that the Cubs don't have an answer for. Candelario is about the only trade target. What kind of prospects at third do we have in the minors?
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3B been a sore spot for awhile now. Other than Bryant name the last decent 3B they have had other than Aramis Ramirez who they traded for at the deadline in 2003. Between those 2 we had Luis Valbuena and then Wisdom after trading Bryant. Before Ramirez had some real doozies in the 10 years before him such as Todd Zeile, Kevin Orie, Jose Hernandez, a washed up Gary Gaetti at the end of his career, Ron Coomer, and Bill Mueller.

If they are interested in Candelario I am not OK giving up any decent prospects for a marginal rental like him. He's having a nice season but historically has never been anything special. Not sure he is really that big of an upgrade over Madrigal at this point. Not sure what the long term plan is unless they want to spend on Chapman in free agency or one becomes available in a trade in the offseason. Drafted Shaw but like any recent draft pick will have to wait and see if they are the real deal.
 
CYdTracked said:
3B been a sore spot for awhile now. Other than Bryant name the last decent 3B they have had other than Aramis Ramirez who they traded for at the deadline in 2003. Between those 2 we had Luis Valbuena and then Wisdom after trading Bryant. Before Ramirez had some real doozies in the 10 years before him such as Todd Zeile, Kevin Orie, Jose Hernandez, a washed up Gary Gaetti at the end of his career, Ron Coomer, and Bill Mueller.

If they are interested in Candelario I am not OK giving up any decent prospects for a marginal rental like him. He's having a nice season but historically has never been anything special. Not sure he is really that big of an upgrade over Madrigal at this point. Not sure what the long term plan is unless they want to spend on Chapman in free agency or one becomes available in a trade in the offseason. Drafted Shaw but like any recent draft pick will have to wait and see if they are the real deal.
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I think that's about it. I might be missing one, but it's Santo, big gap, Ramirez, gap, Bryant, and we're in that gap again.
 
CYdTracked said:
3B been a sore spot for awhile now. Other than Bryant name the last decent 3B they have had other than Aramis Ramirez who they traded for at the deadline in 2003. Between those 2 we had Luis Valbuena and then Wisdom after trading Bryant. Before Ramirez had some real doozies in the 10 years before him such as Todd Zeile, Kevin Orie, Jose Hernandez, a washed up Gary Gaetti at the end of his career, Ron Coomer, and Bill Mueller.

If they are interested in Candelario I am not OK giving up any decent prospects for a marginal rental like him. He's having a nice season but historically has never been anything special. Not sure he is really that big of an upgrade over Madrigal at this point. Not sure what the long term plan is unless they want to spend on Chapman in free agency or one becomes available in a trade in the offseason. Drafted Shaw but like any recent draft pick will have to wait and see if they are the real deal.
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Except the Cubs have excess prospects that they've either got to use to acquire major league players or let them go because there isn't going to be room on the 40 man for them anyway. Outside of PCA, Canario, Alcantara, Horton, Ferris, Wicks and Shaw, I'm not sure there is a true untouchable.
 
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1UNI2ISU said:
Except the Cubs have excess prospects that they've either got to use to acquire major league players or let them go because there isn't going to be room on the 40 man for them anyway. Outside of PCA, Canario, Alcantara, Horton, Ferris, Wicks and Shaw, I'm not sure there is a true untouchable.
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Dude, if we trade the prospects for guys who can play, we can't just talk about our future with the prospects.
Gotta have perspective.
 
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Clonefan32 said:
I just don't think you can be part of yet another sell-off. At some point you have to show winning is important. And I guess I'm not sure your measure should be Braves or Dodgers. Just making the playoffs is a big deal.
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It's not a sell off when you are only trading specific pieces that maximize return. The Cubs didn't think they would be this competitive. The fans didn't. Like or it not, this team needs at LEAST another elite level starter and a solid backend starter. It definitely needs more bullpen help, something that will inevitably be exposed in the playoffs. It also needs another solid bat, preferably with power.

Making the playoffs is nice but it's pointless if you don't have a chance of winning. Anything can (theoretically) happen but, if you are being honest, what is this team's chances of beating the Braves, Dodgers, and one of the American League teams? They also have to get to the playoffs first, something that's not assured even with moves.

If the Cubs don't see Stroman in their long term plans his return needs to be explored. Same with Bellinger. Don't like whats being offered? Hold onto to them and see what happens. But man, I wouldn't let the mirage of a .500 team sporting a 10+ game sub-500 record against winning teams stop a good trade opportunity.

It's smart baseball.
 
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Clonefan32 said:
I just don't think you can be part of yet another sell-off. At some point you have to show winning is important. And I guess I'm not sure your measure should be Braves or Dodgers. Just making the playoffs is a big deal.
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They have pieces that won't make the 40 next year that they would like to see a return for. If you can deal a few of those players all the better.
 
ZRF said:
It's not a sell off when you are only trading specific pieces that maximize return. The Cubs didn't think they would be this competitive. The fans didn't. Like or it not, this team needs at LEAST another elite level starter and a solid backend starter. It definitely needs more bullpen help, something that will inevitably be exposed in the playoffs. It also needs another solid bat, preferably with power.

Making the playoffs is nice but it's pointless if you don't have a chance of winning. Anything can (theoretically) happen but, if you are being honest, what is this team's chances of beating the Braves, Dodgers, and one of the American League teams? They also have to get to the playoffs first, something that's not assured even with moves.

If the Cubs don't see Stroman in their long term plans his return needs to be explored. Same with Bellinger. Don't like whats being offered? Hold onto to them and see what happens. But man, I wouldn't let the mirage of a .500 team sporting a 10+ game sub-500 record against winning teams stop a good trade opportunity.

It's smart baseball.
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Resent history has shown the best team doesn't always win. If you make the playoffs you have a shot. Regardless playing is October is always a positive.

As for Stroman he hasn't been right since London. If you can get a good enough return deal him.
 
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Guardians just shipped Civale for Manzardo. I would've easily given up Stroman for him; oh well.

I'm wondering if this move puts Josh Bell on the block.
 
Cyforce said:
Resent history has shown the best team doesn't always win. If you make the playoffs you have a shot. Regardless playing is October is always a positive.

As for Stroman he hasn't been right since London. If you can get a good enough return deal him.
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Sorry, but this is an extremely errant statement. We aren't talking about being the "best team", rather being a team GOOD ENOUGH to win. EVERY World Series winner, as well as opponent, has been 14 games or more above .500 for nearly 2 decades. The last team that wasn't? You guessed it, the luckiest team in baseball history, the 2006 StL Cardinals. But even that team had something going for it this team doesn't; a team that had been very good/successful for the previous 6 or so seasons, and a generational talent in Pujols. Lucky for them they were in the worst division in baseball and in the lesser of the two leagues.

This team might not be good enough to make the playoffs, let alone win it. While you're right, anyone can 'win it' if they're in it's highly unlikely that a team of this caliber actually does.

If the Cubs make the playoffs would you bet 1000 on them winning the Series? Didn't think so.
 
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RoseClone said:
Not sure why Ross insists on Mancini against LP. These are big games.

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I have 2 thoughts

1) we’re paying him $7 million, let’s hope we can create a spark so he can be worth a tenth of that as the season progresses

2) Hope he does something that makes a team sniff by tomorrow
 
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