Stop!
- Thread starter Irish1
- Start date
I think you are referring to me? None of the analytics are perfect, plenty of NBA teams have developed their own metrics. For as bad as he is, his +/- is truly a testament to the other 4 guys playing when he does stepping up their play apparently.
I had you blocked long before this discussion, guessing you’re a terrible game day poster. You linking Torvik back to me when I was clearly already on that site is a childish behavior I don’t need from a message board troll.
Sometimes availability is the best ability. Maybe as our other pieces become more acclimated Jones' minutes will go down. But I still believe that there are minutes for him.
I have to agree with one thing though. I don't think any player should stop shooting, but I think Rob could be a little more judicious about the shots he is taking. No going into a double team unless the shot clock or the time he has already been in the lane calls for it. No circus shots from under/behind the backboard unless there isn't time to find another look. If he did those two things we might find he is a better player than we all thought.
BRE kinda reminds me of Rocky Balboa. Remember in Rocky II when Mickey yells at Rocky to switch to south paw? I bet TJ saw that movie too ("Kick it out NOW, Rob!").
Of course I'm referring to you. You are the one that said I was (paraphrase) conveniently leaving out his defensive rating. I omitted it as it clearly gave false indicators as to who great defensive players are. If you sort just on conference games, do you know who is #1 in that stat? Tre King. I'm probably one of the biggest Tre King fans on this board but any stat that indicates he's the best defender in the league is preposterous, the same with one that puts Jones in the top 5.
My point was if you look at Torvik with an objective eye, Bob stands out as the WORST player getting significant minutes in the conference. I did another sort with most of the statistically relevant categories (no 3 point shooting obviously) from the conference, only using conference games. His PRPG is the 2nd worst in the conference (by far worst on the team), his DPRPG is 10th worst (bottom 20% and worst on the team), BPM (box +/-) is by far the worst in the leage (and worst on the team by 9!), OBPM is easily worst in the league, DBPM is 11th worst, ORTG by far the worst in the league, EFG worst in the league, TS is by far worst in the league, TO's 7th worst in the league (3rd worst among big men), FT% 3rd worst in the league, close 2 % is 14th worst (4th among non guards, worst for centers), overall 2% is 7th worst (worst among big men). Basically the only categories Bob is DEAD LAST in or bottom 20% of the league that matter? Rebounds, steals, and blocks.
So this time you mention the +/- stat. I have no idea what you are looking at as Torvik has Bob DEAD LAST in conference BPM (+/-) and by a wide margin. Again, if you don't believe me just click on the link below, I have it sorted for you. The only reason I keep on this is because people (like you) keep trying to pretend like Bob isn't a substandard Big 12 player. And not just substandard but statiscally and consistently the worst player for anyone getting 8+ minutes a game (20% of available minutes).
***THE OFFICIAL ZRF HIGH-BROW, BRILLIANT ANALYSIS GAME THREAD: ISU-WVU***
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Thanks for the infamy I guess.
This is a message board dedicated to college athletics. Personal attacks should be frowned upon without good merit but saying Bob isn't a Big 12 caliber player isn't that.
Here's an image of our favorite Spiderman alternative at the premier of a Spiderman movie
If you have a little imagination it almost looks like Spiderman is reaching out to unclasp her bra.
Early 2000's fashion truly was mystifyingly bad.Here's an image of our favorite Spiderman alternative at the premier of a Spiderman movie
If you have a little imagination it almost looks like Spiderman is reaching out to unclasp her bra.
BPM is pretty different from actual plus/minus. BPM essentially attempts to use box score statistics to estimate a player's contribution. Particularly for defensive BPM, most people agree that it shouldn't be used as a complete rule, in part because the only defensive statistics recorded are steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds. For players who contribute defensively but don't record many statistics, it's not a good measure. For instance, Gabe Kalscheur had the lowest DBPM on the team last year, and is only slightly higher this year, because he doesn't record many of those statistics. Similarly, Rob Jones often boxes out and lets other guys come in and get rebounds, and he is all in on try to cut off guys going to the rim rather than getting blocks, so he naturally doesn't record many blocks.
Simple plus/minus is just the pure points scored by Iowa State minus the points scored by the opponent when a player is on the court. This post from the Kansas game thread points out that the Texas game is really the only one where Jones's plus/minus was especially bad. Of course, there are other players on the court, but looking at the game-by-game plus/minus certainly doesn't support the argument that every time Rob Jones steps on the court the team just falls apart and games are lost in those minutes.
And of course, I need to give my usual disclaimer that I don't think Rob Jones is an excellent player by any means, just that he gets more flack than he deserves.
I was wondering about that but I don't see any shadowy circles so I'm thinking there may be some type of bra or at least pasties.
The question isn't whether the team 'falls apart' rather it's does Bob have a positive impact on the floor? The next question, if the answer is no, is do we have better, available options to replace him?
Obviously there are 4 other players on the court with Bob. The stats don't show this, but in the Tech collapse Bob was out there Grill hit two quick 3s and a fast 8 point spurt. He had nothing to do with anything that happened, yet his plus minus gets the benefit. While not perfect, the totality of advanced analytics like Torvik aim to isolate a players performance by player and intra-team comparison. The fact he is so poorly rated in most of the metrics matches what most people's eyes are telling us: Bob isn't a very effective player and brings little tangible value to the teams overall performance.
Now, there are some things the team/Bob can do to mitigate those weaknesses. We can hedge screens more effectively to reduce mismatches up top, while Bob (as others have stated) needs to pass the ball out instead of forcing moves/shots. I don't have the stats for this either, but Bob is ineffective posting on his dominant side (to where he has to go baseline or offhand across the lane). I don't know why Lipsey and others feed him when he's on the right side of the block. It rarely works out.
I realize I’m the ass hole for this but how anyone can watch this game, which has been a pretty accurate reflection of Bob all conference season, and think he belongs on a P5 floor, is ******* crazy.
Elite effort. Strong as ****. About as talented at this sport as a broomstick
Elite effort. Strong as ****. About as talented at this sport as a broomstick
