Monday Night with a Teacher

[Gonzo]

I cannot imagine how many things I wouldn't have been allowed to do and how many chores I would be assigned at 5 in the morning had I done that. The school punishment would have been the least of my worries.

We don't have kids yet but we've discussed a lot of the struggles around devices both in terms of usage and when and what kids get exposed to. I have no idea how you're supposed to handle it in this day and age but my instincts say to expose them to a lot and help them understand which of those things are right and wrong. I've seen a lot of kids exposed to nothing until they're in high school or so and then they have no idea how to manage themselves.

I couldn't imagine being a MS or HS kid today because of devices and social media. They are never, ever disconnected from their social world. And that's not a good thing. When I was that age and home for the night, I was disconnected from friends, enemies, girls, etc., except for the occasional phone call. I think you need that. Kids today don't get that. They are ALWAYS connected and in communication with each other, 24/7, which opens up so many doors to pressures, bullying, social stigmatizing, etc. It's seriously f*cking horrible.

 

[AuH2O]

That's all perception. They made movies in the 70s and 80s off the same perceptions and gave the same reasons.

Yeah, the stuff like vandalism, pulling even very bad pranks on other kids and teachers seemed almost worse when I was a kid than it is now. It seems like kids now are more empathetic to other kids and teachers.

I think what has really gotten more common and worse are the lockdowns or sending the other kids out of a classroom because kids are throwing chairs and losing their **** in class. That stuff rarely, if ever happened when I was a kid. Not because of some advanced morals or behavior, but we probably just thought it would be extremely embarrassing and destroy us socially. Maybe kids got more in-school counseling, or maybe those types of kids simply weren't in public schools at that high of a rate. I really don't have any idea.

I've asked my father in law who just retired after over 40 years teaching, and this is his observation. He said kids just seem to be more extreme in both directions over the past 10 years or so. He says in general a majority of kids probably get into less trouble now, but there are way more kids that are on the extremely bad end of the behavior spectrum. But he also said kids are also far more empathetic to each other and treat what would've been the "losers" back in the day with a lot more kindness.

 

[Trice]

"Kids these days."
- every single middle-aged person since the dawn of time

This was a bit of a flippant answer so I wanted to expand. I've seen lots of data in recent years about how much better off kids are than in past generations. More volunteering, less underage drinking and drug use, less premarital sex, stuff like that. There's a lot to be positive about.

And yet kids report being under far more pressure than previous generations were. Sports and/or music can be a full-time job. Grades, standardized testing, the pressure to get into a college of choice. Despite their best intentions, parents have ruined childhood for a lot of kids.

But one thing the last generation or so of kids have had to contend with in a way no previous generations have is technology. It is an accelerant to every bad impulse people have: bullying, bad self-images, dumb social media challenges that get people hurt, celebrity worship, mis/disinformation, you name it. It's all right there, streamed directly into kids' brains and shared with everyone they know, instantly, every day.

Technology, and social media in particular, have come so far so fast we aren't equipped to deal with it. Teenagers haven't figured out how to manage it, nor have their parents figured out how to manage their kids' use of it. Which is no surprise because most parents haven't figured out how to manage it for themselves.

 

[madguy30]

I couldn't imagine being a MS or HS kid today because of devices and social media. They are never, ever disconnected from their social world. And that's not a good thing. When I was that age and home for the night, I was disconnected from friends, enemies, girls, etc., except for the occasional phone call. I think you need that. Kids today don't get that. They are ALWAYS connected and in communication with each other, 24/7, which opens up so many doors to pressures, bullying, social stigmatizing, etc. It's seriously f*cking horrible.

Again I think it's an adult thing too any more. We're all addicted.

This past weekend I camped and had zero reception and it was weird at first but fantastic.

But I agree--before all of this ability to be connected we had less access and excess and could spend time just doing whatever we were doing. My father still lives in that world (no internet) and in a lot of ways I'm envious.

 

[BryceC]

In the same boat with devices, but I'm pretty apprehensive about showing the kids a lot on the internet. Crazy sex and beheadings are off of the list, but I don't find Facebook or the Insta to be particularly good for a kid's mental health.

We're never more than 2 clicks away from a triple anal picture or the pic of a Vietcong getting shot in the head.

Not exactly sure how parents get in front of any of this.

In a weird way iPads are probably better than the desktop computers of the past. I worry about this with my 11 year old, but honestly he literally never opens Safari on the iPad. It's straight to Youtube where he watches Dude Perfect, Mr. Beast, and videos of people playing Madden and opening packs or setting his fantasy team roster.

I am sure that every generation has their challenges - maybe this isn't new. However, in the last decade or so, the addition of Ipads and social media has had an impact. If nothing else,
1- parents aren't giving their kids the attention they need at night. My wife can see it. She knows who is getting attention at night and who is being ignored. Some parents don't realize they have some responsibility to keep track of their kids homework and schedules. Follow up email doesn't help. At a higher level - parents don't care about their kids and their development.
2 - Even beyond the standard issues of kids on devices, kids who spend their night on ipad or with xbox get really used to getting to chose whatever they want to do, they get immediate feedback for their decisions, and they don't have to be responsible for their decisions on the device (IE extra life or redo the game). No compromise needed, no patience needed just play. THAT isn't the real world and shows up in the classroom.

Again, it might be worse now, but my dad worked for the railroad. He spent half of my life growing up on the road, like not even available. My mom was the TAG teacher for the entire district. She worked all the time.

I played an absolute buttload of video games and watched TV all the time. Honestly way more than my kids do now. I certainly wasn't alone in my behavior. Again, I am extremely reluctant to dig on kids because we've been doing it for hundreds of years. While we haven't kept up with Asian or European countries for scholarly achievement our numbers have improved in math and reading since 1990 when I was in elementary.

 

[BCClone]

I'm pretty lucky in that as my youngest is in 8th so I'm winding down something like 10 years of volunteer coaching, and I haven't experienced too many bad cases like that. There are a couple here and there, but most of those are kids you can work with.

I always sound like an old man ranting here, but I think a lot of the weekend problems with kids come with lack of time with parents. When both parents are working full-time and buy into this stupid "I have to take care of myself to be the best parent" ********, they have very little time actually interacting with their kids. Either through guilt or lack of energy to actually deal with their kids they don't to spend their limited time with their kids over a weekend disciplining them or taking away a planned fun activity.

People don't want to hear it, but you can't have two parents that are really into their careers working long hours and be highly effective parents. You can be almost superhuman with the time you have, but it simply takes a lot more time than you have available. It doesn't mean your kids won't turn out great, but that's taking a big chance. Actual parental bonding can't be a weekend job.

I can also assure people from experience, delaying or hindering careers to raise kids and actually spend lots of time with them is a decision parents will not regret. It's amazing how "poor" you can be and live a very happy life.

We have several friends where only one parent works. They have decent cars and homes, nothing fancy but decent. Most people who claim they have to both work, really have to have both working for what they want; not what the kid wants/needs.

 

[VeloClone]

Discipline but not spelling……trade offs I guess.

We joke about this but we were appalled to learn that not only is cursive long gone in the curriculum but somewhere between my daughter and my son they axed spelling. Didn't we have enough people who couldn't spell their way out of a wet paper bag before when we were actually attempting to teach it? Now I guess we expect that they will get it close enough that spell checker will be able to substitute the correct word. Yeah, that is working out real well for people who are at least decent at spelling. Should be a real winner for people who don't have a clue.

 

[BryceC]

We joke about this but we were appalled to learn that not only is cursive long gone in the curriculum but somewhere between my daughter and my son they axed spelling. Didn't we have enough people who couldn't spell their way out of a wet paper bag before when we were actually attempting to teach it? Now I guess we expect that they will get it close enough that spell checker will be able to substitute the correct word. Yeah, that is working out real well for people who are at least decent at spelling. Should be a real winner for people who don't have a clue.

Best way to get better at spelling is reading. And my kids who are in elementary are reading a LOT more than I did when I was that age.

 

[cycloner29]

@VeloClone what was so "dumb" about my post on the incident that happened at the Ames Middle School?

 

[JM4CY]

We joke about this but we were appalled to learn that not only is cursive long gone in the curriculum but somewhere between my daughter and my son they axed spelling. Didn't we have enough people who couldn't spell their way out of a wet paper bag before when we were actually attempting to teach it? Now I guess we expect that they will get it close enough that spell checker will be able to substitute the correct word. Yeah, that is working out real well for people who are at least decent at spelling. Should be a real winner for people who don't have a clue.

Are you and Surly brothers or something?

 

[VeloClone]

@VeloClone what as so "dumb" about my post on the incident that happened at the Ames Middle School?

The post isn't dumb, the "prank" is. Sorry if misunderstood.

What is really dumb about is that people will refer to it as a prank rather than what it really is. With a prank nobody or nothing really gets hurt or damaged. That was no prank.

 

[qwerty]

"you'll never believe what happened to me"

Do tell . . . I haven't read any of these for almost 40 years.

 

[nfrine]

Sounds like elementary school when I was there 30 years ago.

You are young. I spent my first 6 years of schooling in one-room country schools. Behavior issues were dealt with on the spot and again when you got home. Really worked well.

 

[ISUTex]

I'm 40, I work with a guy from Oklahoma who is my age that literally did get paddled in high school. He called it "gettin' swats" and basically everybody went through it at some point. I'm not for that, but I was absolutely shocked when he said it.

I think punishments are just way too lax. I think they should suspend a lot more kids, especially these suburban kids. Make their parents stay home from work and deal with it for a bit.

That said, my kids really haven't had to deal with much bullying or anything like that. The amount of bullying of some of the other kids when I was growing up in school was downright shameful and I regret not doing anything more for those kids.



Yeah, all kinds of stuff was going down when I was in school, people breaking into vending machines, egging the school, etc. I didn't do it but there was always something going on. My middle school keyboarding/computer teacher lost control of the class one year and from then on the poor bastard just had the lunatics running the asylum.

Many kids love out of school suspension. And their parents usually don't stay home with them.

 

[CascadeClone]

I could write a book, but the short answer is this: PARENTS.

You can tell which kids have parents that spend time with and discipline their kids. And the ones that don't.

 

[ISUTex]

Kids have always had issues. Mainly the issues are shi@@y parents. Neglect, abuse, being spoiled rotten, terrible role modeling. You name it. Today we have social media and 24 hr news on top of it.

 

[VeloClone]

Yeah, and now there is a push to prohibit suspensions in some school districts. We can't send kids home who are greatly disrupting the learning experience of other kids because the parents don't want to have to deal with them. Let's just let the worst 5% screw up school for every other kid and make every day at work a living hell for the teachers.

A classic case of confusing correlation with causation:

The Case for Banning School Suspensions

We need to try to understand, not penalize, students when they act out.

progressive.org

Who would have imagined that kids who misbehave enough to get suspended might be more likely to cross the line into criminal activity?

Results of one such ban:

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/knowledge-bank/articles/2018-01-24/suspension-bans-do-real-academic-damage

 

[Cyched]

Yeah, and now there is a push to prohibit suspensions in some school districts. We can't send kids home who are greatly disrupting the learning experience of other kids because the parents don't want to have to deal with them. Let's just let the worst 5% screw up school for every other kid and make every day at work a living hell for the teachers.

Then in 5 years we can scratch our heads and wonder why we can’t find enough teachers.

I’m in

 

[NorthCyd]

I can tell you this much. My father in law spent his entire career teaching and his last three years were the worst kids he had ever had. We aren't talking about one or two bad eggs here.

It's a snowball effect. If there are no repercussions the behavior only gets reinforced.

My father was a high school teacher in a small town in Iowa and quit in 1971 because the kids had such bad attitudes.

 

[BryceC]

Many kids love out of school suspension. And their parents usually don't stay home with them.

It sounds bad but that's fine. They can love it. As long as they are not disrupting the learning of other kids I'm fine with it.