End of January Update Coach Prohm

[Neptune78]

I wonder if JP thought, with 5 minutes left, will they close this one out and win it? Hate to admit it, but I was thinking, how will they lose it?
When you're defeated in conference play, JP has to know we need a new guy on sideline.

 

[swiacy]

It's over, fat lady sang and left the room. The debate should be whether JP makes the mistake of a mid major hire (McD/Prohm) or goes elsewhere. Johnny Orr and Fred were fluke hires but Johnny was a proven commodity who was underpaid and Fred was unique in that he played under Johnny and Floyd who were great coaches and then spent 10 years in The League under and observing great coaches. HIs NBA connections enhanced his recruiting ability. JP has to hit a homerun this time as his basketball hires have been up and down.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Agree. Because if you get the recruit and next year isn't much better, then you could have said recruit transferring and needing a new coach.

Yeah, I don’t get why people are worried about players transferring and Hunter going somewhere else. Whoever takes over needs to establish their identity right away, and start to recruit towards that goal.

When you add in the covid transfer rules, I would expect a full roster turnover within two years.

 

[Halincandenza]

Can he though? I mean there isn't an argument to be made that his players don't play hard, and he sure knows his way around a white board, but I think we should be weary of believing that he's a great recruiter.

He hasn't actually brought in a lot of recruits and outside of his son, none of them are rated very high. I'm not saying I don't want DeVries though, it's just an observation.

I would say he can recruit well for Drake. Might not be high profile guys but he finds the right pieces for them.

 

[GrindingAway]

That play where Bolton airballed a three coming out of a Prohm timeout is the only evidence you need that Prohm is clueless.

Go back and watch the play, Bolton and 2 other guys didn't even move, the 2 guys on the baseline criss crossed each other running about half speed, and then Bolton just jacks up a 3. A high school team could defend his offensive sets.

If we are thinking about the same play I think it is a great study on Coach Prohm and his limitations on the offensive end. My take is slightly different than yours though.

I think the play you are talking we ran JCL off an Iverson cut/screen to the right side (top of the court as viewed). That is a fine action and you see it all over basketball. It's also a good action for JCL and his skill set. The problem is and one of the general problems with Prohm is that once that initial action breaks down we have no ability to flow into something else. Players stand and either go into ISO or you see/hear Steve yelling out a new call from the sideline. The initial action is good, but our actions are one and done. Again you see iverson action all over basketball, teams that run good offense have it flow into something else when it breaks down though. (Also on that particular play that was awful shot selection by Bolton).

Related to initial actions flowing into some sort of continuity I feel like in the early Prohm years we were much better at that. One thing I have often wondered about is the role Charlie Henry used to play on the staff. We used to have better flow on offense in the early years and actually had some innovative sets. Charlie is the only staff turnover I'm aware of and I wonder if that had an impact. (I fully understand that having high IQ basketball guys like Georges and Monte also likely had an impact as well and also guys that were pretty solid off the bounce in those ISO situations like Wiggington, THT, Shayok - but curious if staff impacted it as well)

 

[Cycl1]

I think what gets me the most is Steve's refusal to do anything about the issues we have. We haven't been able to rebound for the last 4 years. It was clearly a glaring issue. So what does he do? He goes and recruits 3 combo guards, a 4 who doesn't have much of a reputation for rebounding, and two transfer combo guards. We are a team comprised completely of shooting guards and bigs who can't rebound, and we act surprised we get killed on the glass. Harris, Dubar, Blackwell, JCL, Johnson and Tre Jackson are essentially slight variations of the same player. I think we are good on average-shooting combo guards, let's maybe spend some resources on fixing the issues that have plagued us the last 4 years.

The other issue with me is this year, more than years past, we actually have some depth. Now, maybe not great depth. But after Bolton, they get pretty interchangeable in my mind. I'm not sure any combination of Bolton with JCL, Jackson, Walker, Dubar, Harris, Johnson, Conditt and Solo makes a big difference. So if you have guys that aren't rebounding and giving effort, move on down the line. Play 12 guys if you have to until you get some effort on the glass and after lose balls. You watch the good coaches in this league, if they aren't getting the effort they want they'll go down to the damn walk-ons. It's about accountability.

I mean, Dubar goes from a starter to not even seeing the floor? You don't throw him out there and see if he can't pull in a few rebounds? Is he hurt?

And I actually kind of commend him on being able to keep his cool out there. I think the CIA should study how his brain works or something for training hostages to keep their cool during an interrogation. Knowing how bad we've been, knowing his job is on the line and watching them give up rebound after rebound and not going completely apoplectic is actually somewhat remarkable. I'd lose my mind.

I'm not saying I want Fran out there. And as much as I like Chris Beard his tantrum last night was an embarrassment. But my goodness, at least pretend like you hold them accountable beyond a disappointed dad look as they leave the floor.

He makes around $2500 per minute of gameplay. I could put up with a lot for that much money.

 

[Clonefan94]

It's over, fat lady sang and left the room. The debate should be whether JP makes the mistake of a mid major hire (McD/Prohm) or goes elsewhere. Johnny Orr and Fred were fluke hires but Johnny was a proven commodity who was underpaid and Fred was unique in that he played under Johnny and Floyd who were great coaches and then spent 10 years in The League under and observing great coaches. HIs NBA connections enhanced his recruiting ability. JP has to hit a homerun this time as his basketball hires have been up and down.

I was on board with McD when he was hired, he seemed like the right guy. I'm not sure a lot of people predicted that would turn out like it did. I'm not saying I predicted this with Prohm, but I never understood hiring him. He had 1 tournament appearance as HC at Murray St., his best season, with the other coaches guys (sound familiar?). Yeah, over all his record was decent, but only made the tourney that one time and it's not like he had a lot of years under him to prove his abilities.

I never did like the hire, but I will admit, I never saw it turning out this bad. If not there yet, we are as close as it gets to "It can't get any worse." I mean other than shutting down the basketball program, could it get worse?"

 

[g4ce]

I would say he can recruit well for Drake. Might not be high profile guys but he finds the right pieces for them.

I agree with this. Why are we determining if he can or can't recruit high level talent based on what he has brought to Drake? We should be evaluating whether he has brought guys to Drake that fit his system and how he has done coaching them up. The talent that wants to come to ISU should theoretically take a step up from Drake no matter who is the coach here.

 

[CaptivaCyGuy]

If you listen to CSP now after games and pregame clips, I believe he knows what is coming and has began to accept the reality of his situation. At this point, I am just going to be patient and wait till the last game. I expect ADJP is giving him the professional courtesy of letting him finish out the season and then will make an announcement shortly after season's completion. My hope is that the process moves quickly so that we can be one of the first to offer a coach and not drag this out.

 

[Statefan10]

I would say he can recruit well for Drake. Might not be high profile guys but he finds the right pieces for them.

I concur. And maybe he ends up being able to recruit at Iowa State! Who knows. I'd be fine taking a flyer on him. I just hope we make that decision through a process and don't jump to a decision.

 

[heitclone]

If we are thinking about the same play I think it is a great study on Coach Prohm and his limitations on the offensive end. My take is slightly different than yours though.

I think the play you are talking we ran JCL off an Iverson cut/screen to the right side (top of the court as viewed). That is a fine action and you see it all over basketball. It's also a good action for JCL and his skill set. The problem is and one of the general problems with Prohm is that once that initial action breaks down we have no ability to flow into something else. Players stand and either go into ISO or you see/hear Steve yelling out a new call from the sideline. The initial action is good, but our actions are one and done. Again you see iverson action all over basketball, teams that run good offense have it flow into something else when it breaks down though. (Also on that particular play that was awful shot selection by Bolton).

Related to initial actions flowing into some sort of continuity I feel like in the early Prohm years we were much better at that. One thing I have often wondered about is the role Charlie Henry used to play on the staff. We used to have better flow on offense in the early years and actually had some innovative sets. Charlie is the only staff turnover I'm aware of and I wonder if that had an impact. (I fully understand that having high IQ basketball guys like Georges and Monte also likely had an impact as well and also guys that were pretty solid off the bounce in those ISO situations like Wiggington, THT, Shayok - but curious if staff impacted it as well)

I think this is true of nearly every play we run, either the initial player the play was run for shots no matter what or the play totally breaks down, in those situations, it's not uncommon for us to not even get a shot off. It happens so often that it you have to believe its not something they really work on in practice. It would be really interesting to see exactly what they work on in between games....offensive sets? defensive rotations? in bounds plays? rebounding? learning how to set/receive screens? Obviously some sarcasm but from the games, I would believe all they do is shoot and dribble. It's hard to imagine a team with a collective lower bball IQ.

 

[Halincandenza]

I concur. And maybe he ends up being able to recruit at Iowa State! Who knows. I'd be fine taking a flyer on him. I just hope we make that decision through a process and don't jump to a decision.

Yeah, I don't care who it is really as long as it is a thorough process and they get who they think is the best person for the job. Only reason Devries is on fans' radar is because he is in the state.

 

[CapnCy]

Yeah, I don’t get why people are worried about players transferring and Hunter going somewhere else. Whoever takes over needs to establish their identity right away, and start to recruit towards that goal.

When you add in the covid transfer rules, I would expect a full roster turnover within two years.

Yep...great points....and obviously in-non covid rules, not uncommon for the transfer market to create opportunities for a new coach to build.

 

[heitclone]

I concur. And maybe he ends up being able to recruit at Iowa State! Who knows. I'd be fine taking a flyer on him. I just hope we make that decision through a process and don't jump to a decision.

He recruited just fine at Creighton, this was a blub from the Omaha World Herald article after he was hired by Drake.

After 20 years as Creighton assistant, Darian DeVries returns to MVC as Drake coach

DeVries, part of the Bluejays' staff since 1998, will be replacing Niko Medved, who resigned after one season to accept the head coaching job at Colorado State.

omaha.com

DeVries has also helped bring in some key recruits, regularly assigned to canvass locally for top-tier prospects. He played a vital role in the recruitment of rising sophomore Mitch Ballock and helped identify several Omaha products (including Justin Patton and Khyri Thomas).

Ballock was preseason Big East POY, Patton was a 5 star 2 and done, Thomas was a 2nd round pick that had a cup of coffee in the league

 

[jsb]

If you listen to CSP now after games and pregame clips, I believe he knows what is coming and has began to accept the reality of his situation. At this point, I am just going to be patient and wait till the last game. I expect ADJP is giving him the professional courtesy of letting him finish out the season and then will make an announcement shortly after season's completion. My hope is that the process moves quickly so that we can be one of the first to offer a coach and not drag this out.

of course he is going to finish out the season. It would be really ******* stupid to fire him now. It would look bad to whoever we hire (TJ). The fact that so many fans are that stupid is mind blowing.

 

[NoCreativity]

I think the play you are talking we ran JCL off an Iverson cut/screen to the right side (top of the court as viewed). That is a fine action and you see it all over basketball. It's also a good action for JCL and his skill set. The problem is and one of the general problems with Prohm is that once that initial action breaks down we have no ability to flow into something else. Players stand and either go into ISO or you see/hear Steve yelling out a new call from the sideline. The initial action is good, but our actions are one and done. Again you see iverson action all over basketball, teams that run good offense have it flow into something else when it breaks down though. (Also on that particular play that was awful shot selection by Bolton).

Yes, that was the play right after a timeout. That brings up the next question then. If the initial action breaks down is Bolton coached to then completely abandoned their offense 10 seconds into the shot clock without even taking one dribble or pass and throw up a prayer?

Every game there is an example of comical stuff like this happening, the Mississippi State game Bolton was having alot of trouble getting the ball over the half-court line and the other 4 guys were all just standing in a row down on the baseline and nobody even went out to help him.

 

[Cat Stevens]

of course he is going to finish out the season. It would be really ******* stupid to fire him now. It would look bad to whoever we hire (TJ). The fact that so many fans are that stupid is mind blowing.

You can’t really believe that it’s mindblowing at this point

paul rhoads was relieved of his duties prior to the last game. Steve will finish out the season.

 

[jsb]

You can’t really believe that it’s mindblowing at this point

paul rhoads was relieved of his duties prior to the last game. Steve will finish out the season.

i suppose not. But it’s pretty stupid. It’s not like TJ would resign tomorrow to take the job.

 

[Kurttr]

I think what gets me the most is Steve's refusal to do anything about the issues we have. We haven't been able to rebound for the last 4 years. It was clearly a glaring issue. So what does he do? He goes and recruits 3 combo guards, a 4 who doesn't have much of a reputation for rebounding, and two transfer combo guards. We are a team comprised completely of shooting guards and bigs who can't rebound, and we act surprised we get killed on the glass. Harris, Dubar, Blackwell, JCL, Johnson and Tre Jackson are essentially slight variations of the same player. I think we are good on average-shooting combo guards, let's maybe spend some resources on fixing the issues that have plagued us the last 4 years.

The other issue with me is this year, more than years past, we actually have some depth. Now, maybe not great depth. But after Bolton, they get pretty interchangeable in my mind. I'm not sure any combination of Bolton with JCL, Jackson, Walker, Dubar, Harris, Johnson, Conditt and Solo makes a big difference. So if you have guys that aren't rebounding and giving effort, move on down the line. Play 12 guys if you have to until you get some effort on the glass and after lose balls. You watch the good coaches in this league, if they aren't getting the effort they want they'll go down to the damn walk-ons. It's about accountability.

I mean, Dubar goes from a starter to not even seeing the floor? You don't throw him out there and see if he can't pull in a few rebounds? Is he hurt?

And I actually kind of commend him on being able to keep his cool out there. I think the CIA should study how his brain works or something for training hostages to keep their cool during an interrogation. Knowing how bad we've been, knowing his job is on the line and watching them give up rebound after rebound and not going completely apoplectic is actually somewhat remarkable. I'd lose my mind.

I'm not saying I want Fran out there. And as much as I like Chris Beard his tantrum last night was an embarrassment. But my goodness, at least pretend like you hold them accountable beyond a disappointed dad look as they leave the floor.

Couldn't agree more w/ the complete lack of accountability. Combine that with poor Xs & Os and it's a real problem that isn't going away.

Note that this doesn't suggest the players don't care or that they don't try. It's that the coach doesn't require what's needed to do the fundamentals, win, etc. Most players will take it easy on some key "winning" aspects if not held accountable. Don't think this staff recruits those leaders who demand it of their teammates, either.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Couldn't agree more w/ the complete lack of accountability. Combine that with poor Xs & Os and it's a real problem that isn't going away.

Note that this doesn't suggest the players don't care or that they don't try. It's that the coach doesn't require what's needed to do the fundamentals, win, etc. Most players will take it easy on some key "winning" aspects if not held accountable. Don't think this staff recruits those leaders who demand it of their teammates, either.

He never found his Deandre Kane or Dustin hogue.

problem is, there are a lot more coaches after those guys today than there were 8 years ago