End of January Update Coach Prohm

[Jer]

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this one. The way I see it is that football is somewhat like the shiny new toy, and basketball, at least for me, is the toy you've enjoyed playing with for years upon years. I grew up in Ames in the '80s/early '90's when the football program was as bad as this basketball season currently is, but it was bad every single season. I'm certainly much more a ISU football fan now than I used to be, but I still feel that emotional attachment to ISU basketball a bit more. Certainly I'm only writing for myself here, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Cyclone fans in their forties (like me) feel the same way.

To those in our age range, MBB is what got us emotionally connected to ISU at a time when FB was losing by 50 to Nebraska and felt more painful than rewarding. We also went to FB games, but the emotional tie was built on the ups and downs of the MBB team being competitive even in down years.

While there are now emotional ties to FB for us, sucking at MBB feels like it attacks our childhood memories in a much more painful way - at least for me.

Plus, it should in theory be easier for ISU to be consistently competitive in MBB than it is in FB. For many reasons - conference realignment, off season FB recruiting, etc - we need ISU MBB to be competitive and fun or it impacts a lot of other things.

I think it's for those reasons there are some of us that aren't hoping for one candidate or another because they're nice, but because we believe they can put the best staff together to ensure both recruiting and Xs and Os are handled - not just one or the other like present times. We need somebody that can assemble the best staff more than somebody that can just do one thing great.

Personally, I think it's better to bring in somebody that can get elite talent consistently so we don't have the huge class disparities of the past 8-10 years. Then, you can get an older super experienced Xs and Os guy and some other quality assistants to round out the staff.

In fact, that's exactly what worked really well in the early Hoiberg years until his staff started to evolve and we lacked strong HS recruiting. Prohm can recruit above average guys (though not consistently Elite) but doesn't have the right staff to help develop. That's why we need a new PROGRAM and not just Head Coach.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

He made a couple illegal phone calls, it’s not like he was banging hookers in front of recruits. I don’t want him for other reasons but people make it sound like he’s the worst person in the world.

Wasn't it at multiple schools? I think you're being obtuse here.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Lol if we had a good coach who brought in NBA caliber players, we wouldn’t be losing by nearly 40.

Nevermind Haliburton is probably rookie of the year and THT is being called the next Kobe.

 

[BCClone]

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this one. The way I see it is that football is somewhat like the shiny new toy, and basketball, at least for me, is the toy you've enjoyed playing with for years upon years. I grew up in Ames in the '80s/early '90's when the football program was as bad as this basketball season currently is, but it was bad every single season. I'm certainly much more a ISU football fan now than I used to be, but I still feel that emotional attachment to ISU basketball a bit more. Certainly I'm only writing for myself here, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Cyclone fans in their forties (like me) feel the same way.

Im in my 40s and want 90% focus on football 5% on MBB and 5% on the rest. Football drives the whole AD. A good football team will allow you to hire better basketball coaches, get better basketball facilities and such. A good basketball team doesn't get you much other than a good basketball team we've seen.

 

[RustShack]

Nevermind Haliburton is probably rookie of the year and THT is being called the next Kobe.

What’s that have to do with wanting to hire a good coach? Or are you trying to say having elite talent is what makes Iowa State bad?

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

What’s that have to do with wanting to hire a good coach? Or are you trying to say having elite talent is what makes Iowa State bad?

maybe the fact that people are saying he doesn't get elite talent here?

 

[Jer]

Nevermind Haliburton is probably rookie of the year and THT is being called the next Kobe.

I just have to say that while THT is a great athlete, I still struggle to see some of the hype. I think he has great skills and abilities, but I've yet to see him being able to do much of anything consistently. He needs to develop more of a jump shot and get more consistent night-after-night to have a chance of being a star. Right now he's a lot like Burton - makes incredibly highlight reels but struggles far too often.

 

[CyCrazy]

Nevermind Haliburton is probably rookie of the year and THT is being called the next Kobe.

The next Kobe? What are you smoking?

 

[NoCreativity]

adding in a healthy Foster, Hinson and Hunter combined with Bolton might be enough to get you back in the tournament.

Not with the current coaching staff they have. The only hope for next year is a new coach that can make those players better or we are looking at another 4 or 5 win season.

 

[CYdTracked]

To those in our age range, MBB is what got us emotionally connected to ISU at a time when FB was losing by 50 to Nebraska and felt more painful than rewarding. We also went to FB games, but the emotional tie was built on the ups and downs of the MBB team being competitive even in down years.

While there are now emotional ties to FB for us, sucking at MBB feels like it attacks our childhood memories in a much more painful way - at least for me.

Plus, it should in theory be easier for ISU to be consistently competitive in MBB than it is in FB. For many reasons - conference realignment, off season FB recruiting, etc - we need ISU MBB to be competitive and fun or it impacts a lot of other things.

I think it's for those reasons there are some of us that aren't hoping for one candidate or another because they're nice, but because we believe they can put the best staff together to ensure both recruiting and Xs and Os are handled - not just one or the other like present times. We need somebody that can assemble the best staff more than somebody that can just do one thing great.

Personally, I think it's better to bring in somebody that can get elite talent consistently so we don't have the huge class disparities of the past 8-10 years. Then, you can get an older super experienced Xs and Os guy and some other quality assistants to round out the staff.

In fact, that's exactly what worked really well in the early Hoiberg years until his staff started to evolve and we lacked strong HS recruiting. Prohm can recruit above average guys (though not consistently Elite) but doesn't have the right staff to help develop. That's why we need a new PROGRAM and not just Head Coach.

You hit a lot of points I agree with. This is why I'm not a fan of bringing Fred back or Otz because I think we just need to hit the reset button and bring in someone in the mold of what Campbell did with the FB program that is going to build something that is sustainable and not just a good year or 2 where we make a run then have to turn a chunk of the roster over and rebuild it again. Hoiberg hit the jackpot when he got Niang, Thomas, Morris, and Naz and then sprinkled in some quality transfers around them but like you said look at the 2 year gap Prohm inherited in the HS recruiting classes when Fred left. It enviably would have taken us a step back for a bit too had Fred stayed and not backfilled with some quality 3 or 4 years guys to replace them. Prohm find quality guys to replace them but they were more of the 1 or 2 years and done type as Solomon Young is really the only impact 4 year guy he has been able to retain.

I don't have a strong opinion on who should be the next coach other than I don't think dipping back into the Hoiberg/Otz pool is going to have the same results the 2nd time around as they did the 1st time. DeVries is sure intriguing but are the results because his team is really good or the quality of competition in the MVC? Will just wait and see what happens to Prohm after this season and what names come up with interest in the job before I get too deep on who is the right fit for the program.

 

[RustShack]

maybe the fact that people are saying he doesn't get elite talent here?

Lol everyone knows he’s gotten some great players here. Everyone also knows he has a lot more misses. Everyone also knows he missed out on like the first 50 transfers he reached out to last year. Everyone also knows he’s just a terrible coach, who put together a terrible staff.

 

[mowheat]

Success is absolutely tough to sustain. We are probably at a juncture where a change is needed. Still been a wonky year with the Covid stuff which still has had an impact to some extent. Although there is a body of work that can be judged/scrutinized for the last few years. It doesn't seem that we repleneished very well this year contributing to our regression. I like Prohm a lot and I would venture to guess he will have success when/if he moves on this year or next. It has been tough to watch though and some changes are probably in order.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

The next Kobe? What are you smoking?

Just what the Lakers fans are saying. Not the same type player more so they were the same age when they started in the league.

 

[Cycl1]

Success is absolutely tough to sustain. We are probably at a juncture where a change is needed. Still been a wonky year with the Covid stuff which still has had an impact to some extent. Although there is a body of work that can be judged/scrutinized for the last few years. It doesn't seem that we repleneished very well this year contributing to our regression. I like Prohm a lot and I would venture to guess he will have success when/if he moves on this year or next. It has been tough to watch though and some changes are probably in order.

even if covid has made a difference of 10 points per game we still only are at 6 wins.

We beat sdst
We beat kstate by 1
West virginia by 5
And texas by 4.
We still have many losses by 15+, and maybe we aren't considered a garbage team by somep opponents so they focus on us instead of looking ahead. Texas for example we were between 2 away games against top 15 opponents for them. They probably didn't try their hardest against a 2 win team.
West virginia played us sandwhiched between a ranked richmond and a game at top 3 kansas.

And that is a 10 point swing. Much over 10 and the games arent even considered close games. A 5 point swing only gets us 1 win against sdst and a tie at wvu.

 

[werdnamanhill]

You hit a lot of points I agree with. This is why I'm not a fan of bringing Fred back or Otz because I think we just need to hit the reset button and bring in someone in the mold of what Campbell did with the FB program that is going to build something that is sustainable and not just a good year or 2 where we make a run then have to turn a chunk of the roster over and rebuild it again. Hoiberg hit the jackpot when he got Niang, Thomas, Morris, and Naz and then sprinkled in some quality transfers around them but like you said look at the 2 year gap Prohm inherited in the HS recruiting classes when Fred left. It enviably would have taken us a step back for a bit too had Fred stayed and not backfilled with some quality 3 or 4 years guys to replace them. Prohm find quality guys to replace them but they were more of the 1 or 2 years and done type as Solomon Young is really the only impact 4 year guy he has been able to retain.

I don't have a strong opinion on who should be the next coach other than I don't think dipping back into the Hoiberg/Otz pool is going to have the same results the 2nd time around as they did the 1st time. DeVries is sure intriguing but are the results because his team is really good or the quality of competition in the MVC? Will just wait and see what happens to Prohm after this season and what names come up with interest in the job before I get too deep on who is the right fit for the program.

I agree with this. I may have a different perspective, because I really only fully hopped on the train in 2015-2016 season. I caught the end of the Hoiberg era and I have been following since that season pretty closely. There is no reason to bring back any Hoiberg connections. I think a lot of people are blinded by feel-good memories here. Sure, the first game I ever went too was the yellow-out win vs KU in January. I have never heard a louder noise in my life, and I will seriously remember it forever. But, how good we all felt during that game should not effect the hiring decisions now?

Do you all seriously think that the coach of a mid to low MWC team who recruited a few good players almost a decade ago is the best option? I just don't get it.

 

[werdnamanhill]

I agree with this. I may have a different perspective, because I really only fully hopped on the train in 2015-2016 season. I caught the end of the Hoiberg era and I have been following since that season pretty closely. There is no reason to bring back any Hoiberg connections. I think a lot of people are blinded by feel-good memories here. Sure, the first game I ever went too was the yellow-out win vs KU in January. I have never heard a louder noise in my life, and I will seriously remember it forever. But, how good we all felt during that game should not effect the hiring decisions now?

Do you all seriously think that the coach of a mid to low MWC team who recruited a few good players almost a decade ago is the best option? I just don't get it.

I'll be happy to eat crow if he works out, for what it's worth.

 

[Urbandale2013]

I agree with this. I may have a different perspective, because I really only fully hopped on the train in 2015-2016 season. I caught the end of the Hoiberg era and I have been following since that season pretty closely. There is no reason to bring back any Hoiberg connections. I think a lot of people are blinded by feel-good memories here. Sure, the first game I ever went too was the yellow-out win vs KU in January. I have never heard a louder noise in my life, and I will seriously remember it forever. But, how good we all felt during that game should not effect the hiring decisions now?

Do you all seriously think that the coach of a mid to low MWC team who recruited a few good players almost a decade ago is the best option? I just don't get it.

TJ shouldn’t be brought in because he is TJ. He should be brought in because he has a good resume. This is his 5th year as a HC. His previous 4 years all looked really good. He also has other key factors such as recruiting connections to the Midwest and P5 assistant experience.

Certain people refuse to consider him because of his connections to Iowa State. That is the same principle that you are complaining about. His resume should stand independent of his previous experience at Iowa State. He likely is a finalist if you do that.

 

[CyCrazy]

TJ shouldn’t be brought in because he is TJ. He should be brought in because he has a good resume. This is his 5th year as a HC. His previous 4 years all looked really good. He also has other key factors such as recruiting connections to the Midwest and P5 assistant experience.

Certain people refuse to consider him because of his connections to Iowa State. That is the same principle that you are complaining about. His resume should stand independent of his previous experience at Iowa State. He likely is a finalist if you do that.

He hasn't done squat since having Daum on his roster at SDSU.

 

[Urbandale2013]

He hasn't done squat since having Daum on his roster at SDSU.

Well seeing as since then he has had one complete year at a complete rebuild at UNLV I’m not sure that’s saying a whole lot. Even then that one year he finished 2nd in the conference.

 

[werdnamanhill]

TJ shouldn’t be brought in because he is TJ. He should be brought in because he has a good resume. This is his 5th year as a HC. His previous 4 years all looked really good. He also has other key factors such as recruiting connections to the Midwest and P5 assistant experience.

Certain people refuse to consider him because of his connections to Iowa State. That is the same principle that you are complaining about. His resume should stand independent of his previous experience at Iowa State. He likely is a finalist if you do that.

I get that, I just can't shake the feeling that most of his accomplishments are overblown because we already know his name. If John Doe had the same resume, except he was an assistant at Oregon instead of ISU, I don't think we would be looking at him.