***Official 2019-2020 Transfer Thread***

[WhoISthis]

I was referring to Buggs in the previous post. Gomez was literally a negative box score player...in the Big West. We had 2 players that were negative box score rated this year, Carter Boothe and Nate Jenkins.

I'm just trying to be realistic about these players possibly coming in.

Negative box score? I don’t think you know what that means.

Who is not being realistic? Most are focusing on plausible outcomes, albeit the positive ones. A great shooter, even if 5’8” can be an effective Big 12 rotation guy, maybe a starter depending on what’s around him. Or he could be Cory Mac. Risk of Recruits not working out isn’t inherent to just 5’8” grad transfers though!

I’m higher on Buggs more than most. I think he could be a little like NWB. Maybe not, but if you want to be real, there’s likely not better options.

 

[BallSoHard4Cy]

You're really hanging onto that box score rating. His team was one of the worst defensive teams in the country they all had negative box score ratings

Individual defensive metrics are always meaningless. If you play on a good defensive team, your individual numbers will be good (even if you're not a good defender), and vice-versa.

Only way to tell if someone is a good defender or not is via film. Guessing none of us have broken down his film enough to know. I'll trust the staff.

 

[Statefan10]

Individual defensive metrics are always meaningless. If you play on a good defensive team, your individual numbers will be good (even if you're not a good defender), and vice-versa.

Only way to tell if someone is a good defender or not is via film. Guessing none of us have broken down his film enough to know. I'll trust the staff.

Even if he had good defensive film, people would say it was a product of the competition he was playing.

 

[Rabbuk]

Individual defensive metrics are always meaningless. If you play on a good defensive team, your individual numbers will be good (even if you're not a good defender), and vice-versa.

Only way to tell if someone is a good defender or not is via film. Guessing none of us have broken down his film enough to know. I'll trust the staff.

Why should we trust this staff?

 

[Halincandenza]

Justin Pierce: Considered one of the top GTs (a much more highly thought of GT than Gomez) last year from a small school. PER of 20 or over his So and Jr. years. At UNC had a PER of around 11 and averaged 5pts and 4 rbs.
Christian Keeling: Another top GT last year from a small school. PER of 23, 19 and 23 in this three years before UNC. PER of around 10 or so at UNC and averaged 6 points a game.
They were considered key pieces and huge additions. And they were not good on a bad UNC team. If that was a good team they would have barely played.

Here is another good example of someone moving up from a crappy conference. Joe Cremo: Was a stud at Albany and rated as one of the top few GTs a couple years ago. Did nothing at Nova.

 

[CyTwins]

Justin Pierce: Considered one of the top GTs (a much more highly thought of GT than Gomez) last year from a small school. PER of 20 or over his So and Jr. years. At UNC had a PER of around 11 and averaged 5pts and 4 rbs.
Christian Keeling: Another top GT last year from a small school. PER of 23, 19 and 23 in this three years before UNC. PER of around 10 or so at UNC and averaged 6 points a game.
They were considered key pieces and huge additions. And they were not good on a bad UNC team. If that was a good team they would have barely played.

Here is another good example of someone moving up from a crappy conference. Joe Cremo: Was a stud at Albany and rated as one of the top few GTs a couple years ago. Did nothing at Nova.

Why do you keep ignoring my question?

 

[ClonesFTW]

You're really hanging onto that box score rating. His team was one of the worst defensive teams in the country they all had negative box score ratings

View attachment 71053

Shayok and his DPM went from...

Fresh = 5.6
Soph = 2.5
Junior = 2.5
RS Senior = 0.0

Did he just get worse at playing defense as he got older?

No. He went from maybe the best defensive program in the country in Charlottesville to one that has "just try and score more of them" embedded into its DNA.

Guess we'll see who's correct a year from now. I'll choose to have my doubts on a 700+ ranked box score player but I'll hope for the absolute best if he ends up a Cyclone.

 

[LLCoolCY]

Hope this isn't related to Aiken's intentions.
@JoshHenschke BREAKING: The Michigan Insider has learned that #Michigan PG David DeJulius intends to enter the transfer portal https://247sports.com/college/michi...basketball-david-dejulius-transfer-145771871/

 

[Sigmapolis]

Guess we'll see who's correct a year from now. I'll choose to have my doubts on a 700+ ranked box score player but I'll hope for the absolute best if he ends up a Cyclone.

Care to do the same ranking exercise with Shayok and see what happens?

You have some good points here --

-- level of competition through this point of his career
-- far from "ideal" size, to say the least
-- not coming into a program known to have good defensive coaches or a good "defensive culture" where he can learn/they can hide him

The BPM data just is not one of them.

 

[CyTwins]

Guess we'll see who's correct a year from now. I'll choose to have my doubts on a 700+ ranked box score player but I'll hope for the absolute best if he ends up a Cyclone.

I've honestly never heard of someone use a box score rating before. Kudos to sticking to your guns though

 

[Halincandenza]

Hope this isn't related to Aiken's intentions.
@JoshHenschke BREAKING: The Michigan Insider has learned that #Michigan PG David DeJulius intends to enter the transfer portal https://247sports.com/college/michi...basketball-david-dejulius-transfer-145771871/

My guess is Aiken likely stays out East.
DeJulius seems like a good sit out option.

 

[Doc]

Why should we trust this staff?

I actually kind of trust the staff’s player evaluation relative to other programs. When it comes to guards at least. Not so much some other things. Definitely trust their evaluation more than certain defensive metrics.

 

[ClonesFTW]

I've honestly never heard of someone use a box score rating before. Kudos to sticking to your guns though

You're right, there is no correlation between highly rated box score players and on-court performance.

 

[CyTwins]

You're right, there is no correlation between highly rated box score players and on-court performance.

I've just never heard it used before. Sig shot down its credibility pretty quickly though. I just don't know why someone wouldn't want Gomez in our situation but to each their own

 

[ClonesFTW]

Care to do the same ranking exercise with Shayok and see what happens?

You have some good points here --

-- level of competition through this point of his career
-- far from "ideal" size, to say the least
-- not coming into a program known to have good defensive coaches or a good "defensive culture" where he can learn/they can hide him

The BPM data just is not one of them.

I'll play - If BPM of a transfer doesn't matter according to you and @CyTwins, what was the following players box score rating the season before ISU:

Shayok
Nixon
Bolton
Talley
Jacobson

 

[Doc]

Gomez is a good Hilton magic player at least. Great shooter, poor defense. Winning games with offense is more fun that defense. Although I do love a good grinder —just not our thing though.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I'll play - If BPM of a transfer doesn't matter according to you and @CyTwins, what was the following players box score rating the season before ISU:

Shayok
Nixon
Bolton
Talley
Jacobson

Virginia
Colorado State
Penn State
ODU
Nebraska

...probably not a bad ranking of those programs' defensive prowess.

BPM is not a worthless metric, but it is a flawed one relative to many others if you are trying to project how a Big West guy will be defending in the Big 12.

Just to avoid an argument -- I am in agreement with you. If Gomez is more than a "cover him in gasoline, light him on fire, and send him out there to drill a few threes and get him back to the bench before he gives up another layup" guy, then we're screwed. He could be good at that flamethrower role, however, assuming there are others around him.

 

[heitclone]

I actually kind of trust the staff’s player evaluation relative to other programs. When it comes to guards at least. Not so much some other things. Definitely trust their evaluation more than certain defensive metrics.

I like some of the kids we've been mentioned with but looking at Prohm's history with mid major transfers, I'd say he hasn't earned much trust. He's done good with p6 transfers but he's had issues developing mid major kids in to big 12 players. That's just a fact. Shouldn't be labeled a Prohm hater for being apprehensive about these type of kids until he's proven otherwise. That said, I'll be pulling for any of these kids to be the exception.

 

[Doc]

I like some of the kids we've been mentioned with but looking at Prohm's history with mid major transfers, I'd say he hasn't earned much trust. He's done good with p6 transfers but he's had issues developing mid major kids in to big 12 players. That's just a fact. Shouldn't be labeled a Prohm hater for being apprehensive about these type of kids until he's proven otherwise. That said, I'll be pulling for any of these kids to be the exception.

I think it’s more about expectations. The mid major guys rarely work out that well for anybody, not just Prohm.

 

[CloneGuy8]

I would understand if we had only 1 or 2 spots open on questioning taking Gomez, but we have 4 spots open. Not everyone will be on Carton or Turners level; seems like its worth taking a chance on a 40%+ 3 point shooter.