Zion Griffin Transferring

surly

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Don’t beat on the young men, it’s all on coaching. They loved it and stuck around when Fred was here. So? Infact ISU was labeled Transfer U, not so much. Prohm abandoned what worked here. You all thought he would go find some nobody and developed them into a Camron Payne... who ended up being a burst anyways. Not in this league.
My point, perhaps poorly made, is that this happens in every program. It's certainly not limited to Iowa State. In reality, it's more about the athlete(s) than the coach.
 
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Statefan10

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Plenty to be critical of with Prohm right now, but sometimes I don't get it.

There is a class where we have 2/4 and probably 3/4 guys ending up in the NBA.

Yet he "doesn't bring in enough talent."

Heck, a lot of his problem with that class is he brought in too much and the best two of them developed way quicker than we thought they would.
Prohm has been able to get and find very talented guys, but his problem has been getting the role guys to step up. In the two down years we've had, we have not had great role guys. Two years ago our grad transfers didn't help whatsoever while we had two scholarships being used by transfers. This year, our grad transfer didn't help out, guys in the middle we needed to produce didn't, one scholarship was used on a transfer, and two were open due to guys leaving.

If Prohm's going to go after one year guys, they can't be last resort guys. They have to be guys who can come in and provide good minutes or produce at a high level. Next year, Johnson has to be a contributor in my opinion or else it'll feel like his scholarship was wasted last year.

Even if we don't have a true star next year like we have had the last two years, if we're a team full of solid contributors, we'll be in much better shape for not only next year but for years to come.
 
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Sigmapolis

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like that dang Wesley Johnson not posting up enough for McD. How dare he shoot and make 3 pointers when McD says post up.

System coaches must be able to adapt or be able to keep players long enough to learn and grow into the system. We arn’t seeing either in Ames right now.

Prohm has a good system on offense.

He doesn't have a system on defense.
 

Hayes30

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Prohm has been able to get and find very talented guys, but his problem has been getting the role guys to step up. In the two down years we've had, we have not had great role guys. Two years ago our grad transfers didn't help whatsoever while we had two scholarships being used by transfers. This year, our grad transfer didn't help out, guys in the middle we needed to produce didn't, one scholarship was used on a transfer, and two were open due to guys leaving.

If Prohm's going to go after one year guys, they can't be last resort guys. They have to be guys who can come in and provide good minutes or produce at a high level. Next year, Johnson has to be a contributor in my opinion or else it'll feel like his scholarship was wasted last year.

Even if we don't have a true star next year like we have had the last two years, if we're a team full of solid contributors, we'll be in much better shape for not only next year but for years to come.
We didn't have a grad transfer this year fwiw.
 

WhoISthis

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Prohm has a good system on offense.

He doesn't have a system on defense.
And his offense would be even better if we got stops.

We can criticize his tactical ability on a possession-by-possession basis, or game-to-game, which can be the difference in a few games...say beating Purdue to reach S16. But there’s not a fanbase that doesn’t! Maybe the NE Pats!
 

Clone95

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People talk about guys putting time in the gym to improve their shooting. I think it’d be easier to put the time in and improve defense. With Lewis’ athleticism, you think he could become a good defender if he put the work in. Him becoming a solid defender would make him better, in my opinion, than about any transfer option.
 

Statefan10

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People talk about guys putting time in the gym to improve their shooting. I think it’d be easier to put the time in and improve defense. With Lewis’ athleticism, you think he could become a good defender if he put the work in. Him becoming a solid defender would make him better, in my opinion, than about any transfer option.
You usually don't become a good defender over night, and it takes more than just athleticism. You have to know what plays the offense may be running, what type of screening you're going to be using on all types of screens, the scouting report on who can do what on the opposing team, and then the ability to read and react to what the offense does when something breaks down. If Lewis hasn't been able to do it in the 3 years he's been here, than he's most likely a lost cause. And his disability is not only on the defensive end. Although he's skilled offensively, he doesn't know what to do 50% of the time on that end which can mess everything up.
 
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Cydkar

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People talk about guys putting time in the gym to improve their shooting. I think it’d be easier to put the time in and improve defense. With Lewis’ athleticism, you think he could become a good defender if he put the work in. Him becoming a solid defender would make him better, in my opinion, than about any transfer option.
M. Thomas made himself a very good defender while in college.
 
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Statefan10

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M. Thomas made himself a very good defender while in college.
That's because Matt made a conscious effort to do so. He studied film religiously and was constantly working on different drills to help him out, most of the time just by himself. He was working just as much on his defense as he was with his offense and that's a huge reason he is the player he is now.
 
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Dandy

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Zion Griffin is great example of one AAU weekend explosion can be a blessing and a curse. He was forced to play center in high school so no one recruited him. He had one crazy AAU weekend while playing a more logical position and his recruitment exploded, as did his expectations. It gave him the blessing of a chance at a big school but that Kansas offer was probably a curse to his expectations. The transition from out of position high school center to P6 wing was too much, in retrospect.
 

Cydkar

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That's because Matt made a conscious effort to do so. He studied film religiously and was constantly working on different drills to help him out, most of the time just by himself. He was working just as much on his defense as he was with his offense and that's a huge reason he is the player he is now.
Correct.
 

Cyinthenorth

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Zion Griffin is great example of one AAU weekend explosion can be a blessing and a curse. He was forced to play center in high school so no one recruited him. He had one crazy AAU weekend while playing a more logical position and his recruitment exploded, as did his expectations. It gave him the blessing of a chance at a big school but that Kansas offer was probably a curse to his expectations. The transition from out of position high school center to P6 wing was too much, in retrospect.
Bill sure pulled a fast one on Steve, made him take the bait and tie up a scholarship for a couple years.
 

Clonefan32

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I think it's time to probably concede that the current state of affairs can be attributed to a multitude of factors. Recruiting misses, defections, class imbalance, lack of development, etc. Some of it's on Steve, some of it isn't.

But at the end of the day college basketball is a zero sum game. It comes back on the head coach. You recruit the players, you implement the system, you are responsible for the results. So while there are factors both within and outside of his control, any lack of success is in the end attributable to him.
 

Clonefan32

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Zion Griffin is great example of one AAU weekend explosion can be a blessing and a curse. He was forced to play center in high school so no one recruited him. He had one crazy AAU weekend while playing a more logical position and his recruitment exploded, as did his expectations. It gave him the blessing of a chance at a big school but that Kansas offer was probably a curse to his expectations. The transition from out of position high school center to P6 wing was too much, in retrospect.

I kept wanting to see something with Zion that made me "get it" but I never did. I can't think of one moment where he even gave a glimpse of that 4 Star, Kansas offer potential.

Hope he finds a nice landing spot.
 
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BringBackJohnny

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For awhile this thread was looking like a Zion version of the he’s not sweating enough debate on Royce White.

love when people talk about film study, effort, gym ratting, like they know how much effort the dude actually put in.
 
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