This is why Prohm must go........

[Cat Stevens]

I think people look at ISUs facilities now compared to what we had 10 years ago and just assume they are better than they are relative to the rest of the country. You can see what many schools in the top 6 conferences have. ISUs facilities - practice facilities, player accommodations, etc. are fine but I would say they are nothing special relative to most power conference teams.

Unlike the past ISU's facilities are no longer a detriment to recruiting. However, they are not a draw when comparing them to almost any power conference team. Everybody's making a lot more money, and everybody is spending it, and almost everybody in a major conference has good to great facilities for players to live, study and practice.

Be careful, they think our stuff is better than Kentucky’s.

people seem to forget how far behind our facilities actually were.

 

[rochclone]

No it’s not. It’s actually sad and pathetic.

More than likely, what would actually happen, is what we have seen before. You all will disappear unless we lose. See 2017

Back to the point of how this is going to be fixed if possible. We need 4 players that shoot over 35% from 3 pt range and make at least one 3 pointer a game (35 makes). That has traditionally been when Iowa State is successful under CFH or CSP. Right now (assuming no TH) we have zero returning starters that fulfill those requirements.

Bolton is close so let’s say he marginally improves. Jackson is at 31% but let’s say he can improve 4-5%. None of the current incoming recruits fit this mold IMO. Foster probably the closest but that’s a stretch. Meaning we need two fairly efficient high-level grad transfers.
Can we least agree that shooting is the only way to fix this or do others think we can fix it in a different fashion?

 

[Cat Stevens]

When you only talk about Hilton it negates the rest of your “thoughts.” I’m not talking just about Hilton. The basketball team has their own complex. They have their own practice facility. I’m talking about everything the team has at there disposal. Most schools out there don’t have what ISU has for there basketball program. ISU has top of the line facilities for this program. I’m not arguing with you anymore because like you always do, you spin what people say to fit your agenda or just make up crap.

And to return to this. Imagine being so clueless about the state of athletics and facilities across the NCAA.

Like was said earlier, we aren’t as far behind anymore, compared to where we used to be. But it’s not like other schools just stand pat and don’t improve

 

[Cat Stevens]

Back to the point of how this is going to be fixed if possible. We need 4 players that shoot over 35% from 3 pt range and make at least one 3 pointer a game (35 makes). That has traditionally been when Iowa State is successful under CFH or CSP. Right now (assuming no TH) we have zero returning starters that fulfill those requirements.

Bolton is close so let’s say he marginally improves. Jackson is at 31% but let’s say he can improve 4-5%. None of the current incoming recruits fit this mold IMO. Foster probably the closest but that’s a stretch. Meaning we need two fairly efficient high-level grad transfers.
Can we least agree that shooting is the only way to fix this or do others think we can fix it in a different fashion?

******* defense rebounding and toughness is where it starts.

that’s why I’m not optimistic

 

[rochclone]

******* defense rebounding and toughness is where it starts.

that’s why I’m not optimistic

You might get some of that with Blackwell (if he gets here). Not sure any of the others have the build for that quite yet. I think a few of the kids on this team talk about wanting to be tough but are physically and mentally incapable of having that persona on the floor.

 

[Cat Stevens]

You might get some of that with Blackwell (if he gets here). Not sure any of the others have the build for that quite yet. I think a few of the kids on this team talk about wanting to be tough but are physically and mentally incapable of having that persona on the floor.

These guys need to spend the offseason in the weight room. Get bigger and stronger. That leads to the mental toughness.

again, that’s why I’m not optimistic.

edit: we really need a lead guy that doesn’t give a ****. Will take a hard foul. I don’t see that in this group, maybe a transfer. Again that’s why I’m not confident

 

[Statefan10]

Back to the point of how this is going to be fixed if possible. We need 4 players that shoot over 35% from 3 pt range and make at least one 3 pointer a game (35 makes). That has traditionally been when Iowa State is successful under CFH or CSP. Right now (assuming no TH) we have zero returning starters that fulfill those requirements.

Bolton is close so let’s say he marginally improves. Jackson is at 31% but let’s say he can improve 4-5%. None of the current incoming recruits fit this mold IMO. Foster probably the closest but that’s a stretch. Meaning we need two fairly efficient high-level grad transfers.
Can we least agree that shooting is the only way to fix this or do others think we can fix it in a different fashion?

I think we could fix it in a different fashion but that'll depend on how we use the skills of next year's roster. We should be better at 3pt shooting next year. Nixon leaving is going to help with that the moment he leaves (sorry Prentiss but it's true). I don't think we're going to have a team full of snipers though, rather we're going to be very long and athletic who needs to move the ball and attack the basket. Use our versatility / size at the 3-4 position with Foster, Johnson, Blackwell/Dubar, and hopefully be able to rely on Solomon's post game if need be.

It doesn't look like we're going to be great from beyond the arc next year, so we shouldn't rely on it to stay in games or develop leads, rather take the 3's when they come to us. We're going to have guys that can get into the lane and finish over defenders which this year we didn't outside of Tyrese and Bolton.

We're also going to have to basically get 2x better on the defensive end and I think that's possible with the guys we have available for next year. We'll have to wait and see how that unfolds because I'm not going to believe we'll be good on that end until they go out and prove it.

If next year's team ends up being great from 3, I'll be really surprised, but if we are where I believe we are going to be and we rely heavily on it I'm going to be incredibly disappointed.

 

[Clonefan32]

This was a jereseib argument. What changed? Playing a full season and actual accountabiliy.

"Accountability" turned him into a poor defender?

 

[Statefan10]

"Accountability" turned him into a poor defender?

Jameel was always a head case for Hoiberg and frankly was a pain in the a** to coach. He showed up late to practice, constantly complained about weight lifting and workouts, and when things weren't going his way, he'd develop a terrible attitude and sometimes would just give up altogether. There are tons of stories about that.

Jameel didn't buy into Prohm at all, especially because Prohm didn't know how to handle that situation. On one hand, Prohm wanted to be the nice guy and win over the roster, but on the other hand, it was his team now and some of the stuff that used to fly for Hoiberg was not going to fly under him. Jameel didn't like that and that's why his senior year was so weird. It started effecting Jameel's play and when that happened, Jameel started making excuses for it. Remember he thought he tore something in his knee and held himself out of a few games even when the training staff said everything was fine? Jameel had an MRI done and they didn't find one thing wrong structurally.

 

[Halincandenza]

I don't think Jameel was ever a great defender. He won the award because of shot blocking.

 

[AuH2O]

Bingo! I’m sick of people downgrading what our program has been, and what it could be, in order to justify supporting a coach that isn’t performing at the level we expect. It’s the same BS we heard from the posters arguing that we couldn’t do better in the McDermott era.

It's reasonable to expect more frequent trips to the NCAA than we had pre-Hoiberg. It's also not reasonable to expect getting into the tournament for streaks of 6 consecutive years like ISU did in by far its best period of sustained success.

Personally I will never be mad about and ISU team getting a 4, 5 or 6 seed like ISU has since Prohm took over. Could it have been better, sure? But I don't agree with those calling any of those teams failures or major underachievers. Last years team had significant roster turnover and uncertainty not all that different to those in 2011-12 and 12-13. Those teams were 8 and 10 seeds. You can argue which of these rosters had more turnover, more talent, etc., but those differences are not so glaring that you can with certainty call an 8 or 10 seed a success and a 6 seed a failure. It's easy to be really excited about an 8 or 10 seed when you are coming off a six year post season drought. It's tougher to get excited about a wildly inconsistent 6 seed when you are coming off of a recently ended 6 year NCAA streak.

With that said, I just don't see how this years team can be this bad. Not make the tournament, that's one thing. But they are SO bad and just not even competitive in so many games.

 

[Cy$]

Mckay won Big 12 DPOY his junior season. He might've been the worst defender in the conference the next year. What changed??

Frosted tips?

 

[Rabbuk]

Frosted tips?

they were monte's kryptonite too

 

[IASTATE07]

"Accountability" turned him into a poor defender?

Jameel was only worried about himself. We won that early season tournament and there he was on Twitter pouting. He had a good senior season, but had he had his head hooked on it could have been better.

 

[Clonefan32]

And all that's fine. I think it's part of a larger question about Steve's ability to manage difficult personalities. It seems like every year there's a new guy or two that winds up in his dog house.

People seem to act like it was the inmates running the asylum with Fred. But he had an ability to manager their personalities, put them in a position to succeed on the floor, keep them eligible and for the most part keep them out of trouble.

.

 

[Statefan10]

It's reasonable to expect more frequent trips to the NCAA than we had pre-Hoiberg. It's also not reasonable to expect getting into the tournament for streaks of 6 consecutive years like ISU did in by far its best period of sustained success.

Personally I will never be mad about and ISU team getting a 4, 5 or 6 seed like ISU has since Prohm took over. Could it have been better, sure? But I don't agree with those calling any of those teams failures or major underachievers. Last years team had significant roster turnover and uncertainty not all that different to those in 2011-12 and 12-13. Those teams were 8 and 10 seeds. You can argue which of these rosters had more turnover, more talent, etc., but those differences are not so glaring that you can with certainty call an 8 or 10 seed a success and a 6 seed a failure. It's easy to be really excited about an 8 or 10 seed when you are coming off a six year post season drought. It's tougher to get excited about a wildly inconsistent 6 seed when you are coming off of a recently ended 6 year NCAA streak.

With that said, I just don't see how this years team can be this bad. Not make the tournament, that's one thing. But they are SO bad and just not even competitive in so many games.

The season is so bad this year because we lost an absurd amount of talent from last year and completely failed to fill those spots. Outside of Halliburton and Solomon, the returning guys did not make much if any strides from last year to this year. Bolton was a positive, but Nixon essentially equals him out by being a negative. Because returning guys didn't produce we were then forced to play freshman who just aren't ready yet.

 

[Clyde4cy]

And all that's fine. I think it's part of a larger question about Steve's ability to manage difficult personalities. It seems like every year there's a new guy or two that winds up in his dog house.

People seem to act like it was the inmates running the asylum with Fred. But he had an ability to manager their personalities, put them in a position to succeed on the floor, keep them eligible and for the most part keep them out of trouble.

.[/QUOTE

Steve’s doghouse is never empty for sure.

 

[Statefan10]

And all that's fine. I think it's part of a larger question about Steve's ability to manage difficult personalities. It seems like every year there's a new guy or two that winds up in his dog house.

People seem to act like it was the inmates running the asylum with Fred. But he had an ability to manager their personalities, put them in a position to succeed on the floor, keep them eligible and for the most part keep them out of trouble.

.

A big thing with Fred is that he had guys on his team that held the rest accountable. You had juniors and seniors, some who didn't even play, that would get on your a** if you weren't completely bought in. He also had guys on staff that were absolutely perfect for those roles.

I actually think this year's team has pretty good chemistry, but the talent level is just so far down. They're not a good team but they're not cannibalizing one another and tearing the team apart.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Until Jamie Pollard got to ISU, ISU never had the facilities or the budget in any sport to legitimately compete in any sport. You people that bring up the historic records or say people need to look at perspective, the times have changed since then. ISU now has the budget and facilities to compete in both football and basketball, and the expectations should be raised, especially in basketball with the coach we have who inherited a top 10 team and a program that had gained national recognition over the 3-4 years before he arrived. That coach has now set all time record lows for the program in multiple categories. There is no reason for it with what ISU has now for facilities and budget.

Iowa State literally has nothing else to offer that every other P5 team has though. LMFAO at the "set all time record lows"

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Mckay won Big 12 DPOY his junior season. He might've been the worst defender in the conference the next year. What changed??

Having to practice.