Thad Matta - ISU Head Coach next year

[madguy30]

Love your takes Pride - 95% agree with them. Also, want Prohm to success but not looking good. THT got his money - good for him. But Lard and Wiggy were run off this team. They could have been here this season. I don't know what was going on behind the scenes but that was a coaching decision. IMHO, the in game coaching and personnel moves this past 4 years has not been sound. I think he gets another year but if we don't get to the NCAA next year we need to move on. We are and always should be a top half B12 contender and make the NCAA 3 of every 4 tourneys minimum and be a threat to make a run to sweet 16.

If a player (supposedly) shows up really late to practice, shows up high, doesn't show up at all, and leaves practice if held accountable for these things, AFTER a coach has provided really, really good help, should they be allowed to play or even be on the team?

And I'm pretty sure LW's plan was to not be at ISU very long to begin with. He wouldn't have been there in 2018-19 if his returns were better from the NBA.

Whether these guys' situations were handled correctly is debatable, but to say they were run off doesn't make sense.

 

[Statefan10]

I'll bet anyone that we aren't .500 in the conference nor an NCAA tournament team next year. Name the bet. I'll happily lose.
I have no idea why being on the bubble is a topic. You either make it or you don't.

Being on the bubble means we're a tournament capable team. I'm not going to bet on us making the tournament next year, but I'm also not going to completely write it off as a lost cause when we were a 6 seed last year and ended the season ranked in the final poll.

 

[Statefan10]

Sorry man, but in the game of college basketball recruiting is 75% of the battle. It is absolutely correct to evaluate his first two seasons in the context of the situation he inherited.... the same way we would evaluate a coach who took over an empty roster after a coaching change.

Okay then lol let's play that game. You don't give credit for Prohm's first two years.. that's your opinion. So, let's just say it's Prohm's 3rd year then because in your mind, the first two years don't count. Prohm had a rough year his "1st year", followed it up by having a solid year, lost a lot of guys and is currently having another bad year, but in his "4th year" he's bringing in a very good recruiting class. Do you fire him?

 

[Cydkar]

Being on the bubble means we're a tournament capable team. I'm not going to bet on us making the tournament next year, but I'm also not going to completely write it off as a lost cause when we were a 6 seed last year and ended the season ranked in the final poll.

I have zero problem with your'e opinion. I just disagree with it. The next 12 months will be fascinating.

 

[WastedTalent]

CSP is bad and people defending him should feel bad. We get it. His contract means we're stuck with him for another year even though his ass should be fired. I have to laugh at people complaining about people calling him out. What do you think would happen when people paid good money to watch this dumpster fire? I've been to every home game the last 7 years and will call a spade a spade no matter what anyone else thinks about it.

I think the amount of people fully defending him, and claiming he is the long term answer at Iowa St, is much fewer than you think. I'm not sure I've seen anyone saying that.

What gets me is the people claiming it's been so obvious for so long.

For instance, it's obvious you want him fired. Being honest, when was the first time you wanted him gone?

 

[mdk2isu]

Love your takes Pride - 95% agree with them. Also, want Prohm to success but not looking good. THT got his money - good for him. But Lard and Wiggy were run off this team. They could have been here this season. I don't know what was going on behind the scenes but that was a coaching decision. IMHO, the in game coaching and personnel moves this past 4 years has not been sound. I think he gets another year but if we don't get to the NCAA next year we need to move on. We are and always should be a top half B12 contender and make the NCAA 3 of every 4 tourneys minimum and be a threat to make a run to sweet 16.

Doesnt know what was going on behind the scenes but knows that Lard and Wiggy were run off the team.

 

[cb1030]

I think the amount of people fully defending him, and claiming he is the long term answer at Iowa St, is much fewer than you think. I'm not sure I've seen anyone saying that.

What gets me is the people claiming it's been so obvious for so long.

For instance, it's obvious you want him fired. Being honest, when was the first time you wanted him gone?

That's a hard question to answer because I've had serious doubts that started pretty early, mostly due to the fact that it seemed like we had more player related drama and discipline that impacted the product on the floor. I was sort of on the fence about it though and told myself Steve was trying to do what's best for the player in each case. Now I'm not so sure. I mean, these kids aren't getting paid, and I think you can argue whether harsh discipline is really what's best given how that impacts their future chance to actually make some money with the skills they've worked their entire life to hone. It's not so black and white as people would like to tell themselves. These are still kids that have maturity issues.

My wife hasn't been a fan since day one, and she chides me a lot with how early she turned on CPR while a lot of us wanted to give it more time than we should've.

 

[Statefan10]

Doesnt know what was going on behind the scenes but knows that Lard and Wiggy were run off the team.

Lard was uncoachable and done with college. Wigginton believed he was ready to move on. Neither of them were run off the team by Steve. The people on here questioning Prohm when it comes to in game tactics, scouting, lineups actually have some sort of validity. But it's ridiculous to accuse Prohm of not trying anything and everything to help these guys succeed in college and their next step in their lives. He's a very high character guy and is constantly praised by his peers for being so.

 

[ISUChippewa]

It’s ridiculous to see some posters bending themselves into pretzels to blame other posters for not liking Prohm. There is no ulterior motive here and the argument that fans just hated poor Prohm from the start and won’t give him a chance is a load of BS. It’s all about results. It’s all about winning. And it’s about showing you know how to coach on the floor, assemble a roster, and develop players. Prohm just isn’t cutting in.

Except that there are at least a couple of posters who have admitted that they did not like him before he even coached his first game. That is not us "Prohm lovers" making stuff up. And honestly, while I personally think that's ridiculous and completely unfair, I do respect those posters for being honest about it.

 

[cb1030]

Except that there are at least a couple of posters who have admitted that they did not like him before he even coached his first game. That is not us "Prohm lovers" making stuff up. And honestly, while I personally think that's ridiculous and completely unfair, I do respect those posters for being honest about it.

You think it's ridiculous to not like a hire? How? I didn't like one of the hires they made at my employer from day one and felt it was a poor fit, which I've been vindicated on in the time since. Does that make my opinion ridiculous?

 

[madguy30]

That's a hard question to answer because I've had serious doubts that started pretty early, mostly due to the fact that it seemed like we had more player related drama and discipline that impacted the product on the floor. I was sort of on the fence about it though and told myself Steve was trying to do what's best for the player in each case. Now I'm not so sure. I mean, these kids aren't getting paid, and I think you can argue whether harsh discipline is really what's best given how that impacts their future chance to actually make some money with the skills they've worked their entire life to hone. It's not so black and white as people would like to tell themselves. These are still kids that have maturity issues.

My wife hasn't been a fan since day one, and she chides me a lot with how early she turned on CPR while a lot of us wanted to give it more time than we should've.

Besides expecting McKay to be responsible what was the drama on the first two teams?

His 2nd team especially with Monte and Co. ended up being a really nice team in the end. His 3rd team was bad but they actually played some pretty good ball at times.

Although red flags were that after Solo was healthy, it was apparent that even being inexperienced, he was the best option at the 5, and CSP did his retroactive thinking on whether he should have played more. Also did the 'I thought about doing that sooner' thing when waiting a long time to go small ball vs. Purdue when it was clearly the best option, instead of just using it from the start like KU did the next round.

 

[WastedTalent]

That's a hard question to answer because I've had serious doubts that started pretty early, mostly due to the fact that it seemed like we had more player related drama and discipline that impacted the product on the floor. I was sort of on the fence about it though and told myself Steve was trying to do what's best for the player in each case. Now I'm not so sure. I mean, these kids aren't getting paid, and I think you can argue whether harsh discipline is really what's best given how that impacts their future chance to actually make some money with the skills they've worked their entire life to hone. It's not so black and white as people would like to tell themselves. These are still kids that have maturity issues.

My wife hasn't been a fan since day one, and she chides me a lot with how early she turned on CPR while a lot of us wanted to give it more time than we should've.

Ok, I can understand all that.
[Side note, I think most teams, most years, deal with some player drama. It just depends on the severity of it, and how a coach handles it, whether it effects the product on gameday. Look no further before Prohm than Hoiberg's final year with BDJ. That was a cluster ****, and whether it ultimately lead to their first round loss, no one really knows.]

Anyway, as it stands, that's your issue with Prohm. Now put yourself in the Pollard's shoes, and we'll assume he has the same concerns towards Prohm. When was, or is, the right time to pull the trigger and fire Prohm?

 

[clone4good]

I just hope our next coach isn’t a mid major coach. I’m done with that route.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Again, Yaklich hasn't made Texas into some defensive juggernaut this past year. Texas hired Berry the prior year to help with the offense... how has that gone? But I would also argue the biggest problem isn't defense this year. The biggest problem is talent. Prohm has shown he can get the team to be a decent defensive team, they were actually doing really well last year before the team fell apart and still ended up in the top 50. Beilein himself said the biggest reason they were so good defensively is they had the guys with the ability and the desire to play defense. If he wants to fire someone to bring in a defensive specialist, that is fine but it isn't going to make one bit of difference if he doesn't have the guys that have the ability or desire to play defense. It seems like you think that if they just get a defensive assistant they will be good next year.
Ok I am looking at the top teams on Ken Pom. Yeah Ball State is so much better now than they were 2 years ago...

Defensively they are over 100 spots better.

Argueing with you about basket is mostly pointless. You come up with insane positions like now arguing Yaklich wasn't the key to Michigan's defensive excellence, which no one agrees with, and you just refuse to look at any other view and then you start to use strawmen like me saying if they hire a defensive assistant they will be good. Not what I said. What I said was that the only chance he has is to get someone in here who can improve the defense.

Talking about the talent not being good enough to play defense is lazy, not to mention not true. Talent isn't the reason we're 140th in defense. We're 140th because the coaching has failed to teach them how to play defense. We have enough talent to be a decent defensive team.

 

[ISUChippewa]

You think it's ridiculous to not like a hire? How? I didn't like one of the hires they made at my employer from day one and felt it was a poor fit, which I've been vindicated on in the time since. Does that make my opinion ridiculous?

I do think it's preposterous and unfair to declare you don't like the hire before the first game has been coached, yes. I have no idea what you do for a career, so I guess that's up to you to decide if it's really a fair comparison or not.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I think the amount of people fully defending him, and claiming he is the long term answer at Iowa St, is much fewer than you think. I'm not sure I've seen anyone saying that.

What gets me is the people claiming it's been so obvious for so long.

For instance, it's obvious you want him fired. Being honest, when was the first time you wanted him gone?

It's interesting that when things are bad people find the need to just manufacturer more reasons things are bad. Like, the obvious things that aren't going well just aren't enough. Then, to top it off, a lot of them inflate previous performance.

I mean, jeez, things are as bad as they need to be. Making up extra bad stuff isn't really going to move the needle.

 

[MeowingCows]

It's interesting that when things are bad people find the need to just manufacturer more reasons things are bad. Like, the obvious things that aren't going well just aren't enough. Then, to top it off, a lot of them inflate previous performance.

I mean, jeez, things are as bad as they need to be. Making up extra bad stuff isn't really going to move the needle.

Half the people who do nothing but complain don't even watch the damn games or know anything about the team farther than what a 10-second box score glance can show them.

 

[Statefan10]

Ok, I can understand all that.
[Side note, I think most teams, most years, deal with some player drama. It just depends on the severity of it, and how a coach handles it, whether it effects the product on gameday. Look no further before Prohm than Hoiberg's final year with BDJ. That was a cluster ****, and whether it ultimately lead to their first round loss, no one really knows.]

Anyway, as it stands, that's your issue with Prohm. Now put yourself in the Pollard's shoes, and we'll assume he has the same concerns towards Prohm. When was, or is, the right time to pull the trigger and fire Prohm?

Here's the problem that other people like me have tried to address. There were people on here that thought / still think Prohm should've already gotten canned.. Some people wanted him fired after the '17-'18 year, while some believed after last season he should've been fired..

I don't find any problem with the people who have been skeptical overall or their opinions have changed and this season has been the one that has done so, but to want to fire someone after one bad year or after he takes a team to a 6 seed and ends the year ranked is preposterous.

 

[BoxsterCy]

This thread.

 

[cb1030]

Here's the problem that other people like me have tried to address. There were people on here that thought / still think Prohm should've already gotten canned.. Some people wanted him fired after the '17-'18 year, while some believed after last season he should've been fired..

I don't find any problem with the people who have been skeptical overall or their opinions have changed and this season has been the one that has done so, but to want to fire someone after one bad year or after he takes a team to a 6 seed and ends the year ranked is preposterous.

I'll be upfront in saying I think he should be fired this year. Now that doesn't address the contract side of things, only his performance and the trajectory of the program - my opinion. That being said, I think you had to have this year's performance to reach that point. Firing him earlier would've been premature. I get that there's circumstances beyond his control with people leaving and injuries. I would still say he hasn't been effective at leading this program to consistent success.