***Official 2019-2020 Transfer Thread***
- Thread starter ruflosn
- Start date
I think the broader point is the precedents we have (e.g., McD and Rhoads, and heck, even Chizik) is that Pollard is going to give a long leash.
Settled in. This might take awhile, good or bad.
I think Prohm gets the boot at the end of the 20/21 season. I really, really, really, hope I'm wrong.
1. We finish last in the b12 this year.
2. Our 4 commits minus TH does not equal an ncaa bid in 2021
3. Missing the ncaa's 3/4 years with 2 last place finishes and getting smoked by the hawks is not a job saving performance for any ISU coach, no matter how long the JP leash.
Therefore, in order for this situation to not play out, we need a serious injection of talent next year. Big time transfers or bust for CSP in the spring IMHO.
1. We finish last in the b12 this year.
2. Our 4 commits minus TH does not equal an ncaa bid in 2021
3. Missing the ncaa's 3/4 years with 2 last place finishes and getting smoked by the hawks is not a job saving performance for any ISU coach, no matter how long the JP leash.
Therefore, in order for this situation to not play out, we need a serious injection of talent next year. Big time transfers or bust for CSP in the spring IMHO.
how do you know?
next season half our roster will be new..half.
if Prohm holds onto this recruiting class as is and we add Javon Johnson who is sitting out and all indications are he’s been very solid thus far in practice..and we will add a transfer pg or 1 more Hs pg as well..
the difference in this incoming class is most are top 150 kids.. odds are 2/4 thus far will be big 12 ready contributors..at least.
I woupdnt write off 2020 by any means
From a transfer standpoint (the point of this thread) and listening to Travis and Chris the other night, the athletic stretch four is critical to our game. Think Niang, Burton, Shayok... I'm not convinced we currently have anything up to that level here right now.
I don't know about Prohm's future, nor do I want to discuss that here, but he does need that type of player consistently. And I guess he needs a couple, given the way THT played out.
That is basically the worst case scenario.
And probably the only one where Prohm is let go.
Otherwise, like I said, settle in for the long haul.
Pollard might want to give that recruiting class another year.
Everybody is hunting for those kind of guys, though.
Why are you asking “how do you know”? Yes, no one knows the future.
If we finish near last this year, what do you think is the most probable outcome for next year? Given how important TH clearly is to this roster, we’ll need to bring in more than two Big 12 “contributors” to improve if TH departs next year. We’ll need two quality (at least Honorable Mention) Big 12 starters imo.
And we’ll still have a staff that lost to FAMU when shooting better than our average. Knowing they’re capable of letting things slip to that degree really brings down a forecast, even if the the material on the roster is improved from this year.
At this point missing the tournament 3/4 years seems to be very plausible imo.
I know after the non-con it is hard to be positive about the season but there is a lot of games left to see how the players develop. I think it is waaaay to early to be predicting any firings at this point.
Part of the issue was losing THT and Lard a year earlier than the staff expected which caused this to be a down year. Prohm does have a top 15 recruiting class coming in so hope shouldn't be lost. Jamie is loyal to all his coaches and Prohm has been a good representative of the university, I just don't see him making a move coaching even after next year.
Part of the issue was losing THT and Lard a year earlier than the staff expected which caused this to be a down year. Prohm does have a top 15 recruiting class coming in so hope shouldn't be lost. Jamie is loyal to all his coaches and Prohm has been a good representative of the university, I just don't see him making a move coaching even after next year.
THT more than Lard. A healthy together Lard would help this year, but not the type of player we are truly lacking. Our offense, and defense I suppose too, needs an athletic 6-6 200 talent. A real play maker.
Let me try and construct the opposite case. I might be completely off my rocker for the reasons you lay out above, but giving it a chance --
Losing Haliburton is going to be a body-blow. From what we have seen, however, losing Nixon and Jacobson should not be particularly harmful.
Prohm finds a graduate transfer PG to take TH's place, wanting to be the next guy to play under the PG wizard (even the haters admit that Prohm always manages to have elite PG play, which tends to paper over others issues).
At least 1-2 of the young guards -- Bolton, Jackson, Grill, Walker -- spends the summer in the gym and learns how to shoot. They might not be Matt Thomas, but having a viable shooter or two helps the offense quite a lot.
Javan Johnson is a solid piece. Not Shayok, but better than Nixon.
Conditt takes another step and is one of the best big men in the conference. We always have a 7'0" shot blocking/rim running machine out there with Conditt and Foster play tag team with each other. Solomon is his usual solid self.
Some combination of Blackwell, Dubar, and Johnson are those rangy wings we have been missing this year. Again, probably not as talented or with the ceilings of Shayok and Horton-Tucker, but they at least allow us to modernize our lineup.
NEW PG
Shooting Guard (Bolton, Jackson, Grill, Walker)
second shoter/second wing
Wing (Johnson, Blackwell, Dubar)
Conditt/Foster rotation, some Solomon at the 4-5
That lineup does not win the Big 12, but it might fight for the NCAA tournament.
If everything goes well, we land a Haliburton replacement, if one or two of the existing guys develop and can hit shots, if Johnson is worth having, and two or three of the new guys come into the roster and establish themselves in the rotation.
I know, a lot of ifs, but the path is there.
The above heavily depends on player development and quality recruiting, but so does college basketball generally. If those things do not come through, then I guess we know where we stand with the Prohm regime going forward.
If they do, then he righted the ship.
After letting some time to cool down and listing to CW and Hines on the radio and reading Hines article after the game. I think the biggest thing for Prohm is to get a handle on roster turnover.
We added 6 new players to the roster for playing time(Bolton, Nixon, Jackson, Grill, Anderson, and Leech) and 2 of them transfered out.
Last year we added 5 new players to the roster for playing time(Shayok and the 4 Freshman).
The 2017-2018 season we added 6 new players to the roster for playing time(Brase, Beverly, Talley, Wiggington, Lard, and Lewis).
At Iowa State you can't keep turning over such large portions of the roster year after year. Monte, Thomas, and Naz are the last seniors to graduate from Iowa State who used all 4 years of playing time at Iowa State. That was in the 2016-2017 season. Since then our seniors have been transers or Jucos. I will give some credit to NWB as he was a 3 year player at Iowa State.
This year again we will have no graduating seniors that spent their whole careers at Iowa State. We will not have any until next year with Lewis and Young.
If anything, that is what is killing Prohm the most.
We added 6 new players to the roster for playing time(Bolton, Nixon, Jackson, Grill, Anderson, and Leech) and 2 of them transfered out.
Last year we added 5 new players to the roster for playing time(Shayok and the 4 Freshman).
The 2017-2018 season we added 6 new players to the roster for playing time(Brase, Beverly, Talley, Wiggington, Lard, and Lewis).
At Iowa State you can't keep turning over such large portions of the roster year after year. Monte, Thomas, and Naz are the last seniors to graduate from Iowa State who used all 4 years of playing time at Iowa State. That was in the 2016-2017 season. Since then our seniors have been transers or Jucos. I will give some credit to NWB as he was a 3 year player at Iowa State.
This year again we will have no graduating seniors that spent their whole careers at Iowa State. We will not have any until next year with Lewis and Young.
If anything, that is what is killing Prohm the most.
Of course the tournament is possible, two players can cause pivots in CBB. But even if the talent is sufficient, and roster construction better, which requires many things going correctly, it’s tough to reconcile that there needs to be a talent buffer with this staff imo.
No one talks about all the turnover but its basically exactly what Fred did albeit in a different manner, its just not sustainable in the long run for a program like ISU. Under Prohm, if you don't play as a frosh, you're gone. Idk exactly why that is, we are certainly the type of program that can bring in kids that are ready to play but we aren't quite a program that can depend on that every year. We need both those type of kids and some developmental type of players. People here would be ripping him apart if he took kids knowing they were going to redshirt but it's better than trying to refill the bowl every year. We act like no one red shirts but over half the teams in our league had rotational players who took RS years, including KU and Texas Tech.
The bold part I am going to leave alone.
With the other parts, however, I am glad we agree that there is at least a path to upgrading the talent on the roster (a few guys develop, particularly Conditt and Johnson coming off the redshirt along with at least one of the guards, plus the next recruiting class being at least as good as the THT one) and fixing the roster construction (with at least three guys able to fill that hole in the 4 spot left by Horton-Tucker's early departure and Lewis/Griffin trending into bust territory). There is talent in Ames -- it just does not fit together.
College basketball is heavily dependent on recruiting. Fred was not just a good game-day coach, but he brought in highly-touted transfers and four-year guys. Most of the time, the guy with the mostest and the fastest ponies is going to win.
So as long as Prohm is here (and I do not see a circumstance where he does not have at least 1.5 years, even if everything is a disaster, given Pollard's track record), I am going to hope for the best and construct a scenario to get out of this mess in my mind. The path I laid out above of development and recruiting is the way to do it.
I hope we do. The alternative (a cold rebuild) will not be pleasant.
Prohm understands roster turnover. However, he has had some strange things happen. Nobody though THT would be one and done. Nobody thought Haliburton might play himself into a lottery pick after his sophomore season. He had two misses recruiting this last year. He has had some one and done transfer like Shayok. I think his recruiting has started to come around with this last class. Grill and Jackson look to be future solid contributers. We have some new freshman coming in that look to be solid. So hopefully Steve can find and X and O guy to help him with the offense and defense. Recruiting his huge in college basketball. Development and game planning is just as huge. He has the recruiting down I think. Just needs to develop and get better at gameday.
I will be surprised if we don't lose at least couple players this spring from among the group of Young, Griffen, Lewis, Grill or Jackson. Assuming Halliburton is gone- we will have at least 3 scholarships available.
IMO the focus should be on signing a couple JUCO players rather than grad transfers. JUCOS would provide more roster stability and ISU's needs match up with typical JUCO talent- scoring guards and athletic posts/wings.
Our roster is badly in need of a Pearson, Clyburn, Gilstrap, Hogue type player.
IMO the focus should be on signing a couple JUCO players rather than grad transfers. JUCOS would provide more roster stability and ISU's needs match up with typical JUCO talent- scoring guards and athletic posts/wings.
Our roster is badly in need of a Pearson, Clyburn, Gilstrap, Hogue type player.
You are right I love getting JUCO Players. I really want Prohm to target this dude. He is more of a Stretch 4. At 6'11 with legit wing skills he would be a great addition to next season's roster. Plus he would be an RS Soph when he starts D1 ball.
https://247sports.com/player/marial-mading-46051917/
Seth Towns, 6-foot-7, 215 pounds, SF, Senior, Harvard (GRADUATE)
The 2017-18 Ivy League Player of the Year, Towns missed the past two seasons due to knee injuries. If he's healthy, he's the clear-cut No. 1 player on this list, especially because he should have two seasons of eligibility. He averaged 16.0 points and 5.7 rebounds and shot 44.1% from 3 in 2017-18.
Mike Smith, 5-foot-11, 180 pounds, PG, Senior, Columbia (GRADUATE)
Smith is going to graduate and transfer after the season, and he has put forth an impressive season for high-majors to watch. He is averaging 21.9 points, 4.3 rebounds and 4.6 assists and shooting 41.1% from 3 through 15 games.
Patrick Tape, 6-foot-10, 232 pounds, PF, Senior, Columbia (GRADUATE)
Tape is redshirting this season and will graduate and transfer. A highly efficient offensive player, Tape averaged 11.3 points and 5.9 rebounds in 2018-19 while shooting 66.7% from the field.
Brendan Barry, 6-foot-2, 180 pounds, PG, Senior, Dartmouth (GRADUATE)
Barry suffered a season-ending injury in September and entered the transfer portal a few weeks later. A knockdown perimeter shooter, he averaged 13.2 points and made 44.5% of his 3s last season.
Seth Towns is exactly what we need. But the last Ivy League grad transfer with injury history didn't really pay off.
its a job-saving spring for Prohm. we need serious talent asap.
