Probably not. Therefore we should all claim that run our program had wasn’t really as good as it was? I guess it’s a defense mechanism some fans use to feel better about the trajectory of the program under. Prohm.
Steve Prohm
- Thread starter tyler24
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Probably not. Therefore we should all claim that run our program had wasn’t really as good as it was? I guess it’s a defense mechanism some fans use to feel better about the trajectory of the program under. Prohm.
That doesnt happen in a vacuum though. That only worked because the staff had coached up the team to the point that they could just 'let them play' and the result would be positive. This team is nowhere near that. Really hasnt been since fred's players filtered out of the system.
You sound like one of those people that defended McDermott to the bitter end.
You're actively trying to talk down the prior era, which was a massive success, just to try to build up this failed era.
Not saying it's the way to go. Fred had no answers for OU after getting worked in Norman earlier, so threw a wrench at OU.
Sorry, but You did exactly that. You specifically said in reply to me I was “remembering those years as better than they were.” Then in the next post you said I had “a blinded view of a few good years.” Nope - I remember them accurately. You seem to remember them in a harsh light because you are overly concerned about messageboard critics and style of play, instead of Ws and Ls.
So instead of accusing me of lying, go back and read your own damn posts.
As crazy as it seems, even GMac had people around here defending him until the end, same with Paul Rhoads. Steve seems to be in a deeper hole, earlier in his demise than either of those guys. He needs a couple miracles, his job may ride on what kind of player Xaiver Foster is next year.
I'm not talking down the era. The successes back then were a blast. It was a fun resurgence. The lack of defense was a real thing and is questionable for real success.
And I may have been done with McD before he began. He had an assembly when he got hired, and one of his first things was talking about how he was looking forward to beating Iowa some more. That was a red flag right there that perhaps he didn't know what ISU basketball was about.
I don't know if I watched more than 10 McD-coached games to be honest. Less access (out of state) and interest.
I remember great times too. Doesn't mean I don't remember limitations.
I might if you get your head out of the way.
Here’s what you aren’t getting - I’m well aware of all the “limitations” you keep griping about. But what matters to me is the results, which I keep coming back to. You keep coming back to message board gripes and concerns about defensive style.
Don’t you think the results are what is most important?
I never stated that. You can infer what you want and have at it, I don't care. CSP is not the answer but living in the past isnt either.
Kenpom AdjD:
Fred:
2011:89
2012: 66
2013: 123
2014: 55
2015: 59
Average:78
Steve:
2016: 91
2017: 42
2018: 143
2019: 47
2020 as of now: 98
Average: 84
I'm not really seeing the massive improvement on defense people are always talking about. Is it just because the tempo is slower (dropping from being a top 10-20 tempo program) leading to less high scoring games? When fred left the program had defenses in the 50s, prohm had a couple years in the 40s but also 3 years that were up there if not worse than Hoiberg's worst- and the cupboard was a lot more bare when Hoiberg started.
There are a few on here that are totally oblivious to a bad coach when it’s slapping them right in their face.
For some reason people have always wrongly thought Prohm was a coach that valued defense. The results have never matched his perception. His teams at Murray didn’t play D either, so I’m not sure where that came from.
Yes, he TALKS about defense but he doesn’t have the personality to demand tough defense. Nice guy but he’s not a dog. I think you have to be a dog to get 18-22 year olds to really play D.
Have I said anything about Prohm in this? His defenses have not been impressive either, which is worse considering his apparent emphasis on it.
A discussion on Fred's deficiencies isn't automatically a pro-Prohm take.
That depends. The run they made in '14 was really great, but those limitations likely led to the results of that season being the ceiling (yeah, Niang got hurt, but UNC also had a key piece miss practically the entire game). Some seem to think Fred was a shoe in for getting to the Final Four. Generally, bad defense doesn't get you there.
And I'm not sure if you are, but if you think I'm saying these things in defense of Prohm, I'm not. There was never a loss or a collection of losses in the Fred era that made it clear that he needed to go or at the very least revamp his entire approach. And Fred gets the nod in having some form of identity to his program.
I have been arguing the same thing about momentum for a while now. You let them play on in that situation. I know there was some BS argument about players needing rest but, I say that means substitution at the next dead ball, not wasting a timeout! Prohm has such a short rotation that its not even funny sometimes. I am shocked more players haven't transferred out because of that.
Plus why is this team so short in comparison to even most Hoiberg teams? I mean, I think its a big reason why the hawks embarrassed the cyclones in Hilton. Who are we supposed to defend when our guards are like 6'2" at best it seems. Plus Terrence Lewis got nothing until it was too already out of hand for words!!! Lewis is listed at 6'5"-6'6". I think he could have defended Weiskamp better than most of the defenders tried. You can't teach height!!!!
Then if you look at the recruits.... There is a point guard... a short guy to add to the short guys.... Then there are 2 6'5"-6'6" guys. Then there is Foster. When was the last time there was a real sf type? Anyway..... Rant over!!!
every contract extension besides maybe the first before it was obvious that he couldn’t coach was maddening. And I was praying that Alabama was going to bail us out like creighton.
Who do you think ISU should get?
Not arguing because I think Prohm may be gone after '21 at this rate.
