This is why Prohm must go........
- Thread starter ohly2311
- Start date
Fred received plenty of criticism. 'Hero ball' was thrown out there pretty often and the perceived lack of emphasis on defense was an ongoing issue. I'd have to go back but that 2012-13 team had plenty of fans frazzled iirc. They were all over the place. The Kane team only lost 7 games so it all looks great but they were SOOOOOOO close to dropping several more.
An advantage Fred has is it wasn't often to get beat in Hilton or even get beat badly at home.
I think CFH left with the program on an upward trajectory (minus UAB) but the expectations for Georges’ senior year was off the charts. Pre-season Top 4-10 in every magazine.
CSP didn’t fulfill that in 15-16 but who knows if CFH would have either. The program generally seems on a “downward trajectory” even though most of us recognize that it is more “level” than “downward.”
People loved CFH because he put ISU back on the map. When CSP took over there wasn’t a lot of room for further immediate upward trajectory.
CSP has his faults and his good traits. Getting to the NCAA tournament the next two years is extremely important for the program and for him.
Fred received more praise and less criticism than Prohm has. Whether you think either is warranted is fine, but it's true.
I'd note that part of the bridge for year 3 was supposed to be Emmanuel Malou. Should Prohm have known that the chances were pretty low that Malou would get to campus and be able to play? Yeah, probably. But it was a reasonable risk, and if the NCAA had any sense, it would be a different story. And had he been eligible, that team definitely would have been an NIT team. I also think that if the injuries hadn't hit, that team would have been an NIT team. And if both of those things would have happened, that team might have even been an NCAA team.
CFH followed McDermott
CPS followed CFH
Unless that next coach got to the Elite 8 or won the conference regular season (hence continue the upward trajectory) they were going to get criticized. This isn’t a Hoiberg/Prohm issue it is the same issue that Cincy has with Cronin/Brannen and Illinois had with Self/Webber.
A lot of if’s in there. It was generally well-known that Malou was not likely to qualify. It didn’t take anyone by surprise.
I think getting beat at home multiple times including to teams like TCU last year would certainly warrant at least some questioning.
CFH left Prohm some tremendous players, but also did not recruit at all about 2/3 way through the season and didn't announce he was leaving until May.. Players transferred out and Steve was left trying to piece together a puzzle with pieces missing. Had Fred stayed and been committed to staying, the 2015-2016 team would've looked a lot different. He would've gotten great recruits or transfers and they could've made a deeper run in the tournament. OR we could've gotten a different draw, played a team that caught fire, and we get upset in the 1st or 2nd round. You never know.
We played awful that game and it reminded me of how we just played against Iowa.. The other home losses were all close games against tough teams. KSU on a last second shot, Baylor by 4, and Texas Tech by 7 (Tech hit FT's late to extend the lead).
Yeah, there are. Part of that, though, is just to show that a lot of things happened leading up to the results that season. There were definitely some recruiting misses. There were some different approaches that Prohm could have taken that might have led to a better season. But there were also quite a few unexpected things that went wrong that led to those results.
When that team was at their healthiest (never fully healthy because Hans Brase was never fully healthy), they beat Baylor, Texas Tech, West Virginia, and Oklahoma. And at the beginning of Big 12 play they had close losses to Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma State. Then NWB got hurt, Young got hurt, Jackson's dad passed away. At West Virginia, Terrence Lewis played 34 minutes and Jeff Beverly played 31, and somehow they only lost by 15. Honestly, I think that Prohm's coaching job in that season was pretty impressive.
13-18 (4-14)=pretty impressive. 11 losses by double digits and 9 losses by 15 or more. A couple nice moments doesn’t equal a pretty impressive coaching job. It’s the equivalent of jeresib and other’s arguments.
Look, I'm not trying to say they were good. But at the end of the season they had three, maybe four guys who even deserved to be on a Big 12 court at all, much less starting. And with all that they were still fairly competitive. Were the results impressive? No. But were they impressive given the cast of players he had? I'd say yeah, at least a little bit.
There's no comparison in winning a conference tournament, (basically a series of exhibition games to make money off of fans), to making the NCAA tournament Sweet Sixteen.
Please.
In the past couple of years, the 3 wins needed to claim the B12 conference tournament is more of a gauntlet than the 2 wins needed for Sweet 16 birth.
First, this makes winning the B12 tournament all the more impressive. Second, it is why ISU fans wish for more NCAA tourney success.
You guys can downplay the Big 12 Tournament if you want. I'd take a regular season title or a Sweet 16 over it, but to call it exhibition games? Straight up stupid.
Those are good points - I also realize what a fun event the Big 12 tourney is for ISU fans. It's like a prolonged bowl game if ISU keeps winning.
But Coach K, or Jay Wright, or John Calipari, or Tom Izzo didn't earn their reputation based on winning conference tournaments...
While you are raising the bar, might as well include Pat Riley, Gregg Popovich and Phil Jackson.
While at a "power 6" school Coach K didn't reach and win in the NCAA tourney until his 4th year, Jay Wright in 3rd year, Izzo 3rd year, and Calipari 1st year. Prohm has reached the NCAA tournament in 3 of 4 years. Under your criteria, this means that you would have been that fan criticizing Wright, Izzo, and Krzyewski in their first years at their respective "power 6" schools. Of course, that would not look so smart in retrospect.
I don't think anyone is under the allusion that Prohm has proven to the be caliber of coach that you have aforementioned, but all success is not instant and patience is prudent. Many fans just need to a have a reality check on their expectations.
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Year 4 of Prohm era: Iowa State at 82 in NET rankings, just ahead of South Dakota. Zero wins in NCAA Tourney vs Power 6 teams. 1-3 vs Iowa. Nice work with the program, coach.
