Had we had won that game against Ohio State, we would've had a very similar season to Monte, Naz, and Matt's senior season.. So it looks like you're using this one game to determine the success of the entire season.
This is why Prohm must go........
- Thread starter ohly2311
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Yes, I meant 2018-19. That season is viewed differently is it is not book-ended by two poor seasons, and if Halliburton leaves, potentially more. A lot depends on how this year finishes, and frankly, it is easy to see why many aren't optimistic about it. That said, with the dysfunction that transpired in February, it's reasonable for that to have impacted people's views on the staff. That takes more than 3 games in 3 days against depleted conference foes to forget.
True. But he made a concerted effort to go all-in on 2016-17 with grad transfers instead of freshmen.
It never has been previously save the Fizer-Tinsley year.
This is why we keep saying your expectations are unreasonable --
You basically demand the best year in school history or consider it a failure.
I think the Big 12 tournament carries more weight than some people are giving it, and should carry less weight to others. However, winning your conference tournament is still very hard to do in the P5, much like getting to the Sweet 16 is very hard. The fact of the matter is that we've lost some real close games to some tough P5 opponents under Prohm. Our opponents in those games also played extremely well and we did not play our best those days.
I don’t think you can compare a 12-6 Big 12 season (our best since LE) to a 9-9 regular season. His arguments are stupid but don’t try to say those teams had similar results. It’s like saying 6-12 is similar to 9-9.
Don't forget Kasongo, and keeping Carter.
Prohm inherited both a two-year buffer and a challenge for Year 3, that he failed to meet. That challenge isn't unique in today's CBB. For example, how many of our starters and rotation guys from last year were at ISU three years prior? How many this year? You've got to be able to rebuild and reload, quickly, to have consistent success.
Im not going to kill the guy for going all in on 16-17. Hell I’m the guy that should have full court pressed Mooney instead of taking Nixon. But the old 17-18 is entirely on CFH gets a bit old. CSP had 1.5 years to rectify that issue. He choose to go all-in on 15-16 and 17-18. I’m not going to kill that decision but you have to own that decision as well.
Prohm inherited a one-year buffer.
He got lucky on Morris returning (after a shoulder injury) and Naz the second year (the hip). That helped the second year a ton but, unfortunately, lowered the ceiling on the most anticipated season in school history, as well.
Prohm mostly "went for broke" with his recruiting between his first and second year -- looking for instant impact guys to maximize that season.
Unfortunately, those guys... Bowie and Holden... were barely worth having and not worth having at all, respectively. We ultimately relied more on the freshman Solomon Young. I think Prohm might have said he should have just went for young talent to develop back then, which would now be seasoned talent for this year, if he could do it again. And yes, some misses from back then (e.g., Long and Lewis) are hurting us now.
He has made mistakes. If he misses the tournament this year *and* next year, I imagine I will probably be in the camp of needing to make a change (or very close to it).
I also had high expectations for Shayok due to what he did at UVA, and most people fully expected him to be a double-figure scorer at ISU. His last year at UVA a very-offensive minded ISU team scored 20% more ppg than Virginia. So I'm going to call BS on anybody saying they expected Shayok to increase his scoring average 110% and be an All-American. There's a huge difference between being an AA and scoring 19/game and what seemed to be the consensus prediction of what he'd do at ISU.
I think there have been some pleasant surprises as well as disappointments in terms of personnel under Prohm. My problem is people criticize the disappointments like Lard, or McKay while using the dramatic improvements guys like Nader, Thomas, Burton and Shayok made under Prohm against him with the "why didn't he do more with all that NBA talent?" argument. Can't have it both ways. And plenty of people do the same with Fred.
I think we need to see this season play out before we can start to have a good idea if Prohm can consistently win here and get ISU to the tournament.
This is stupid. As is people saying Fred should've fixed it by recruiting to prevent the 17-18 season. That season was going to be bad almost no matter what. The moment Naz shut it down his first Sr. season a rebuild in 17-18 was pretty much inevitable. Morris, Thomas, Naz, and Burton as seniors were going to play every minute they could handle, and the odds of anybody else fitting in with that four as anything more than a role player is highly unlikely. So not only was it going to be damn hard for any young guys to get experience, it was tough recruiting with so many minutes essentially spoken for. Then to top it off, sit out transfers know what the roster is going to look like, and they want to win. A roster turnover of that level isn't attractive to too many guys transferring to play their senior season.
I suppose both Fred and Prohm could've done better to try to ease the crater that year, but it would've been a hell of a feat.
Agree. We had a window in 2015-17. Although the execution in adding to the great base was average, it made sense to try to capitalize. But Prohm owns the 2017-18 roster more than he does 2015-17.
I agree. Because in 14-15 when Fred.........
in addition to Steve.......
made 17-18 rough.
Come on......and LE owns his last two years more than his first three? Please, the players don't operate in a vacuum. Been arguing this stuff for years. If Prohm can be blamed for the bad.....he can be blamed for the good. Because he has had both. And until the bad outweighs the good......I'm just fine. Could it be better sometime....we will never know. Because the flip is it could be worse..much worse. And if it comes to that under him.....get someone else.
While I'm withholding judgment, I'm not exactly bullish on next season assuming Hali is gone.
While I'm certainly not encouraged about this year either, it is awful early. If Prohm misses NCAA these two years, his chair will be on fire.
This is where I'm at as well.. Steve has done a good job at keeping the program where it was when he took it over and with the recruiting class that we have coming in next year, the guys we currently have, and the possibility of adding a transfer or two, I like the outlook of the future of the program. Prohm can identify talent, and I don't think anyone can deny that.. So we'll see if Steve is able to take that talent and mold them into a championship caliber team.
I would like to see continued improvement this year as well. I will not be happy with Coach Prohm if we continue to see the team play like they did against Iowa. I hope that he is able to realize that there are some unhappy fans right now in regards to his coaching. He can't be stubborn and not change some things, or else the support from some of the fans on the fence will diminish. I hope he can do it, I think he can do it, but time will tell.
If he has kept the program steady, why does Prohm receive criticism Fred never received?
My honest opinion was that people had a love affair with Fred Hoiberg. He was the golden child, the pretty boy.. The Mayor. There was blind optimism because people believed no matter the outcome of a game, Fred would fix the issues. People wouldn't blame Fred, they'd blame the team or give credit to the opposing team. They'd blame the other team's player for going off for 44, instead of blaming the defense that was being played. I would say we all fell into this trap of comfortability that Fred created.. We felt invincible.
Once Prohm came to Iowa State I think a lot of people, including me, instantly started to feel uncomfortable. Something felt off about the program. Sure we had the same players, but everything felt a little bit different. Because it felt different, we started to judge Prohm differently. We'd compare Prohm to Fred, compare the players we got to the players Fred had / was recruiting, the offenses and defenses he'd run, etc. We've now gotten to the point where people are starting to talk down some successful seasons because if "X" were coaching this team, we'd have a national championship appearance by now. Some fans are blaming the change of lights in Hilton to shooting performance, some are blaming not practicing in Hilton enough, some fans are even throwing in the towel ten games into a season, a season in which we are very young and have a lot of new people playing together (and have yet to lose to a bad team). People are saying Hilton Magic is dead.
You know what one of the first things Coach Prohm said when we won in KC last March? He said Iowa State University has the best fans in the nation and there isn't another program that comes close to being able to do what we do. He's so thankful for us fans and is crushed when his teams lose because he knows it crushes us fans to. Both him and Matt Campbell understand us and want to be in Ames and succeed. Hilton Magic isn't about who the coach is or who's playing but what the fans make it. I will back up Coach Prohm and hope that his team succeeds the rest of the way this year.
