Lion Air Plane Crash
- Thread starter CloneinWDSM
- Start date
Tough week for air travel in Indonesia. The owner of Leicester City, a Premier League Soccer Team, who was Vietnamese, died in a helicopter crash leaving the stadium after the game.
Just for clarification it was a 737-MAX8 which is different from the -800. This is the first incident involving the MAX line. Six bodies have been found thus far.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/asia/lion-air-plane-crash-intl/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/asia/lion-air-plane-crash-intl/index.html
I heard this is a new Boeing - just started service in Aug 2018. Not like this is an old, malfunctioned aircraft.
Safer than driving on I35.
The country where the accident occurs would investigate. A lot of times they ask for help from the NTSB as they are the best in the business. Boeing has a team of engineers that intimately know each aircraft that would be available upon request to assist and provide detailed info.
It goes without saying that they need to find the flight data recorders to find out anything of substance. It also sounds like the aircraft had a mechanical issue but that was supposedly fixed.
Sounds like the pilot was able to call back and let them know he was having problems. So it should be easier to find out what happened. If this thing is that new, could be looking at grounding the fleet of them. Terrible accident.
A fleet grounding is not likely as there are countless others that have had no issues at all. Compare this to the 787 fleet with Rolls Royce engines being grounded due to major manufacturing issues. (There are going to be some big lawsuits coming RR way on that one).
As I type this there are 66 737-Max 8's in the sky worldwide (lower than I thought but it is still fairly new airplane).
https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B38M
https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/
So it sounds like this is going to fall back on Boeing for not fully educating on what was changed from the NG to the Max line. All indications are that there is a lot more automation that is not covered in differences training that vastly affect how the aircraft operates.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been more of a discussion of this on here since the Ethiopian crash. I’ve have second hand information of leaked flight recorder info on that one and would say the crash was caused by about 10% design/equipment failure and 90% pilot error. There is always a chain of events that lead to a crash and it appears the failed AOA gauge did lead to a erroneous MCAS input that started the sequence of events. I agree it is stupid to use one input when two are available, but that only contributed to what happened it did not cause it. Easily fixed. The most critical factor was the flight crew became distracted and never reduced take off thrust. They also did not know how to respond to a jammed stabilizer trim due to load forces from being grossly out of trim. They were in a gradual climb most the flight and reached speeds over twice the normal speed a 737 would fly. About 30 seconds before the crash the crew re-engaged the MCAS and tried to trim nose up which they were able to do a little. The MCAS gave a nose down input and the yoke was violently pulled back. (All previous inputs required were relatively modest). At this point something in the stabilizer/elevator mechanically failed causing a loss of all control. Further yoke inputs had no effect.
I know probably 100’s of pilots who fly 737s and none I’ve spoken to are the least bit worried about the MAX. I myself would fly one tomorrow if they were not grounded. This should be a quick fix if not for the politics.
I know probably 100’s of pilots who fly 737s and none I’ve spoken to are the least bit worried about the MAX. I myself would fly one tomorrow if they were not grounded. This should be a quick fix if not for the politics.
Pretty sure there was a separate thread in the aftermath on that one discussing both, and the reaction to it.
It's very sad, and unless the voice recorders reveal something, we will probably never know why the pilots didn't reduce thrust. But not doing that basically doomed them. Somehow, the fact that excessive speed causes excessive force on the stabilizer just didn't occur to them.
Do we know what happened on the Ethiopian one yet? I guess my understanding was that Ethiopian one was more concerning because their pilots were trained better.
