Lard looks good

  • After Iowa State won the Big 12, a Cyclone made a wonderful offer to We Will that now increases our match. Now all gifts up to $400,000 between now and the Final 4 will be matched. Please consider giving at We Will Collective.
    This notice can be dismissed using the upper right corner X button.

FinalFourCy

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
9,357
9,145
113
39
6 guards in a 4 guard lineup, however you want to slice it, and 4 of those guards were fantastic. The kind you don't take off the floor for anything but rest. Long wasn't going to get minutes unless he was fantastic for a freshman. In short, we have no real read on how good he is, unless it is "less than fantastic". We'll know much more about him next year.
Sorry, but that's just not true. Look at Babb. I love his potential but he wasn't always ready and he got a lot of minutes despite clearly being behind the other 5. Long got essentially nothing. Hell, Naz played 34 minutes in a blowout of TCU. It may be more incriminating of the staff, but there were more than walkon minutes for Long if he was near being ready.

No one is saying cut him or that in a few years he can't develop into a major contributor. But only one recent player has made a similar 7 month jump. The great Naz.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: BigM and isutrevman

Cyclonepride

Thought Police
Staff member
Apr 11, 2006
96,589
57,454
113
53
A pineapple under the sea
www.oldschoolradical.com
Sorry, but that's just not true. Look at Babb. I love his potential but he wasn't always ready and he got a lot of minutes despite clearly being behind the other 5. Long got essentially nothing. Hell, Naz played 34 minutes in a blowout of TCU. It may be more incriminating of the staff, but there were more than walkon minutes for Long if he was near being ready.

No one is saying cut him or that in a few years he can't develop into a major contributor. But only one recent player has made a similar 7 month jump. The great Naz.

Babb also had a full freshman year at Arkansas (saw minutes anyway) plus a full sit out year under this staff. Hardly comparable, but if you insist on critiquing Long's status based on that, have at it I suppose.

Naz stayed on the court as a stabilizing presence against TCU late, as you don't want to pull every starter out, even with a big lead.
 

Gunnerclone

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2010
68,593
68,505
113
DSM
The only thing I took from that is Lard has the size to play in the Big 12. He's a little bigger than I expected.

If you watched any of Young's high school highlights, you know he is fully capable of hitting a 3-pointer. He has good form and a high release. He doesn't have to look for it, but if he can shoot a respectable percentage, it could help everyone else. I think he has the potential to score 8-12 points/gm next season. He has some skills, we just have better options this season. Young is built to be a great 4, and if we get a true big to help him out down low, we could have a very nice player for the next three years.

I think Solo is having some growing pains since his HS days, literally. And that's not a bad thing he's getting huge.
 

FinalFourCy

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
9,357
9,145
113
39
Babb also had a full freshman year at Arkansas (saw minutes anyway) plus a full sit out year under this staff. Hardly comparable, but if you insist on critiquing Long's status based on that, have at it I suppose.

Naz stayed on the court as a stabilizing presence against TCU late, as you don't want to pull every starter out, even with a big lead.
Excuse me, but you missed the point on Babb. Of course he's ahead of a freshman. But he still wasn't ready and he got more than walkon minutes.
 

CycloneBBFan

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2015
2,186
1,533
83
Carter never plays and has had plenty of opportunity. My judgement is based on that. I frankly don't pay any attention to him when he's in because the game is over.
Carter makes a better cheerleader. He should be awarded an official set of Cyclone pom poms.
 
Last edited:

SolarGarlic

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,567
8,305
113
Sorry, but that's just not true. Look at Babb. I love his potential but he wasn't always ready and he got a lot of minutes despite clearly being behind the other 5. Long got essentially nothing. Hell, Naz played 34 minutes in a blowout of TCU. It may be more incriminating of the staff, but there were more than walkon minutes for Long if he was near being ready.

No one is saying cut him or that in a few years he can't develop into a major contributor. But only one recent player has made a similar 7 month jump. The great Naz.

There were? Babb's minutes weren't up for grabs. He was an established part of the rotation. Babb was ready to play. He wasn't a star, but he had a role.
 

FinalFourCy

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
9,357
9,145
113
39
There were? Babb's minutes weren't up for grabs. He was an established part of the rotation. Babb was ready to play. He wasn't a star, but he had a role.
I'm not saying he'd take Bab's minutes. I'm saying there were a lot of Babb-type minutes available to play Long. Over the course the season there were absolutely situations for Long to get more than walkon minutes. At the end of the year the staff didn't even trust him enough to rest Naz in a blowout against TCU.

I'm not saying he can't or won't ever be a good player, but he wasn't ready this year. The odds are against him being a major contributor to a good ISU team next year imo. How much shall we wager?
 

IAStubborn

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,380
623
113
Excuse me, but you missed the point on Babb. Of course he's ahead of a freshman. But he still wasn't ready and he got more than walkon minutes.
He was our 8th best player. Long may be our 9th. What are you missing here. Minutes are finite. Nobody is arguing Babb isn't more ready it just doesn't mean long is that far off but it also doesnt mean he isnt. The point everyone else gets is we really don't know.
 

SpokaneCY

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
13,294
8,484
113
Spokane, WA
Remember Long was behind 3 senior guards averaging 30 minutes per night along with two top upper classmen reserves getting the other minutes who also needed seasoning for next year. Throw in ISU was in mostly close games all year there wasn't an opportunity to get him in many games.
Young did get limited minutes in the non-con but didn't really force his way into the lineup until the last 11 games and that was due to having a massive hole at the center spot. Credit him for earning Prohm's trust but if Holden/Bowie would have been more effective at the 5 we don't know how much he would have played.

Long was a high 3 star by definition that is a player who need some development and likely starter as a Jr/Sr. Most scouts didn't expect him to come in a play immediately. He now has a year under the staff to develop and work on his weaknesses. Jacoby already has a B12 size and athleticism and if nothing else should be able play the role of slasher and D that Babb provided this year. If he refines his shot he could be in for a larger role.

Young was injured in the early season as well...
 
  • Like
Reactions: isutrevman

SpokaneCY

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
13,294
8,484
113
Spokane, WA
He was our 8th best player. Long may be our 9th. What are you missing here. Minutes are finite. Nobody is arguing Babb isn't more ready it just doesn't mean long is that far off but it also doesnt mean he isnt. The point everyone else gets is we really don't know.

Let a kid work on his game in practice and with the coaching staff. Game day is not the day to develop a kid until he's needed or proved he's ready!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: IAStubborn

FinalFourCy

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
9,357
9,145
113
39
He was our 8th best player. Long may be our 9th. What are you missing here. Minutes are finite. Nobody is arguing Babb isn't more ready it just doesn't mean long is that far off but it also doesnt mean he isnt. The point everyone else gets is we really don't know.
Right and I'm sure some here are optimistic Greder could play too. He's a good athlete.

I'd guess the staff knows and they made no effort to play him. Maybe despite there being more than 40 inconsequential minutes on the year, he really was near a Big 12 level.

We don't know, but many assume he's ready and only played walkon minutes because of who was in front of him. I think that's less probable than it being a case in which he wasn't ready. That's overly negative only to those that are overly sensitive. No one is saying cut him or that as an upperclassman he will still be riding the pine. He's an interesting prospect. If he's quick enough to defend and get past guards he could be eventually develop into a nice mismatch.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: isutrevman

CycloneBBFan

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2015
2,186
1,533
83
I still think people are unfairly judging Long by his lack of playing time this year. He was behind six really good guards in Morris, Mitrou-Long, Thomas, Burton, Jackson and Weiler-Babb. He would have had to be a stellar freshman to even see 5 minutes a game in that scenario.

Cameron Lard is going to get significant minutes at post/wing IMO. He's the most underrated on our roster. Yes it's true we are losing four of our all-star cast but we have 3 incoming freshmen that are studs. We still have the unknowns for remaining scholarships or transfers. Unless Long and Babb make exponential improvements they may be seeing more bench time than fans want to admit.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: FinalFourCy

IAStubborn

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,380
623
113
Right and I'm sure some here are optimistic Greder could play too. He's a good athlete.

I'd guess the staff knows and they made no effort to play him. Maybe despite there being more than 40 inconsequential minutes on the year, he really was near a Big 12 level.

We don't know, but many assume he's ready and only played walkon minutes because of who was in front of him. I think that's less probable than it being a case in which he wasn't ready. That's overly negative only to those that are overly sensitive. No one is saying cut him or that as an upperclassman he will still be riding the pine. He's an interesting prospect. If he's quick enough to defend and get past guards he could be eventually develop into a nice mismatch.
Prohm isn't one to throw a kid in until they are ready to succeed. He clearly wasnt yet, but that doesn't mean his leap has to be monumental. There are a lot of different arcs. People have good reason to be optimistic, he was a good recruit that was well thought of, coaches son that works hard. He has been touted as an elite defender out of HS. He may or not play next year but I really think it is more of a coin flip than a 10:1 type of scenario you are painting
 
Last edited:

bosco

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2008
8,985
6,224
113
Des Moines
We've been really spoiled by Monte, Matt, and Niang where we expect true freshman to contribute right away or they are garbage.
 

FinalFourCy

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
9,357
9,145
113
39
Prohm isn't one to throw a kid in until they are ready to succeed. He clearly wasnt yet, but that doesn't mean his leap has to be monumental. There are a lot of different arcs. People have good reason to be optimistic, he was a good recruit that was well thought of, coaches son that works hard. He has been touted as an elite defender out of HS. He may or not play next year but I really think it is more of a coin flip than a 10:1 type of scenario you are painting
Define monumental. I never said he wouldn't play.

I think it would take an uncommon jump for him to be a major factor. My expectation for the most probable outcome is that he improves and plays a 9th man type role on a young team. If we add a grad transfer guard, he may be like Holden in that it's game-to-game. Of course, many things are possible, he could be a starter next year if he improves his shot and quickness, or not play at all.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: isutrevman

IAStubborn

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,380
623
113
Define monumental. I never said he wouldn't play.

I think it would take an uncommon jump for him to be a major factor. My expectation for the most probable outcome is that he improves and plays a 9th man type role on a young team. If we add a grad transfer guard, he may be like Holden in that it's game-to-game. Of course, many things are possible, he could be a starter next year if he improves his shot and quickness, or not play at all.
I think you said monumental leap referring to Naz and how uncommon it is. I think him starting would be a stretch too. I think he could be part of 8 man rotation though probably a coinflip. If that's indeed what you feel we don't disagree. You made it sound like he isn't near ready wouldn'tcontribute and would transfer. I think if he is part of rotation he stays.
 

FinalFourCy

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
9,357
9,145
113
39
I think you said monumental leap referring to Naz and how uncommon it is. I think him starting would be a stretch too. I think he could be part of 8 man rotation though probably a coinflip. If that's indeed what you feel we don't disagree. You made it sound like he isn't near ready wouldn'tcontribute and would transfer. I think if he is part of rotation he stays.
I don't recall ever saying that. Link?

Naz's year-over-year improvement is uncommon. You're being ridiculously sensitive if you equate thinking he played only 40 minutes all year because he wasn't ready as thinking he would transfer. In fact I've mentioned several times now that I'm not talking about him transferring and that although I don't expect a significant yearly jump, I could see him developing into a contributor as an upperclassman.
 

IAStubborn

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,380
623
113
I don't recall ever saying that. Link?

Naz's year-over-year improvement is uncommon. You're being ridiculously sensitive if you equate thinking he played only 40 minutes all year because he wasn't ready as thinking he would transfer. In fact I've mentioned several times now that I'm not talking about him transferring and that although I don't expect a significant yearly jump, I could see him developing into a contributor as an upperclassman.
Sorry forget about the transfer part. I just think people are saying they think he has a shot at getting meaningful rotation minutes (but we really have no idea or can't possibly know exactly how close he is) next year and you seem to be agreeing with that so not sure why you are arguing with folks.