Epps playing as a Freshman?

[RustShack]

How many RS SRs who have big years would tell you it was the wrong choice?

Humans as a species have absolutely terrible ability to conceptualize waiting for something on the scale of 4 years in the future vs instant gratification. People also generally think what has happened to them is the best way for things to have happened, you can rationalize anything.

That's one of the reasons Rhoads is paid millions of dollars to make those decisions.

And hilariously, one of Rhoads' calling cards and a big point of pride for him before was redshirting every single kid.

Now that he's on the hot seat, that has changed. Can't blame him, but rationalizing it as definitely 100% the right move all the time is stupid. If this was 2010 he would redshirt, and our WRs were way worse then.

That's completely false. Most coaches prefer to RS as many players as they can. BUT, if a freshman is ready to play then he plays. Anywhere. If they need the freshman to play then he plays. CPR RS's most of his players besides a few players every single year.

 

[00clone]

Sure, but he's been doing that ever since he showed up. Knott, Klein, and George all didn't redshirt. As true freshman they had 23, 17, and 4 tackles respectively. We gave up George's fifth year for 4 tackles! 4! Compare that to their 4th years when they had 79 (despite missing half the season with an injury), 117, and 133 tackles respectively. We gave up fifth years from each of those three guys, when they would have been at least All Big XII and probably an All American honor or two, in exchange for 44 tackles.

Do you think we only win three games in 2013 with Knott and Klein in the defensive backfield? Or that George wouldn't have been worth at least one more win last year?

Right, I guess I should have worded that better...wasn't trying to say that WAS the reason here...I haven't been watching the fall camp stuff very much, so I can't say how good he has been, either...I was only trying to say that would be a very valid reason in this case.

However, I would say that although the earlier years didn't have as much pressure, it appears that burning a redshirt for a win-now (or at least try as hard as you can to win now) mentality has been priority over holding back and developing. Right/wrong...IDK, it's easy to look back on those stats and see it appears pretty dumb, but good, quality depth has been an ISU problem for a looong time, so guys get in there before they are really ready. But, is it chicken first/egg first? I honestly don't know. I will agree that there have been times that redshirts have been burned for what seems to be little payback, and that bugs me, but I also can't tell you what would have happened had they not been burned. I'm not that deep into this stuff.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

That's completely false. Most coaches prefer to RS as many players as they can. BUT, if a freshman is ready to play then he plays. Anywhere. If they need the freshman to play then he plays. CPR RS's most of his players besides a few players every single year.

Oh.

 

[DhaCheann]

His dad is Mike Epps

 

[DeereClone]

I hope he can compete but I don't like the way Rhoads burns redshirts. We can't recruit the most talentd kids so we need to develop them and them be good in their 3rd-5th years in the program.

 

[Boomer]

I hope he can compete but I don't like the way Rhoads burns redshirts. We can't recruit the most talentd kids so we need to develop them and them be good in their 3rd-5th years in the program.

Some kids are as good as they are going to get. Role Players who run great routes with solid hands like Epps, he isn't going to grow taller or add significant weight due to his frame with a RS.

http://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198840&p=4420232&viewfull=1#post4420232

http://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198840&page=2&p=4420535&viewfull=1#post4420535

Some players come into Iowa State tapped out on physical potential but are technically sound (the nature of the type of kid you all have to recruit) some RS year benefits. Epps as a possession slot in spot play will do just fine for yall this year

 

[Scott34]

I hope he can compete but I don't like the way Rhoads burns redshirts. We can't recruit the most talentd kids so we need to develop them and them be good in their 3rd-5th years in the program.

Don't agree with u. It's not burning a redshirt if the guy is talented enough to play. Burning means wasting. The whole point in redshirting someone is to get them ready to play college ball. If a player can compete right away, redshirting makes no sense.

 

[FDCy83]

CPR has to win right now, this year, to satisfy some on this board. The some of the same are complaining that CPR believes playing this true freshmen increases the chance of winning. WOW. Do it now, but don't use all the players you need to to win, but win.

 

[RustShack]

CPR has to win right now, this year, to satisfy some on this board. The some of the same are complaining that CPR believes playing this true freshmen increases the chance of winning. WOW. Do it now, but don't use all the players you need to to win, but win.

We could go undefeated and they'd find something to complain about.

 

[dualthreat]

I wasn't the only one who was very impressed with his HS highlight tape. Glad to see he's looking great in camp. This isn't a position of no depth, so he must be playing very well.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

I hope he can compete but I don't like the way Rhoads burns redshirts. We can't recruit the most talentd kids so we need to develop them and them be good in their 3rd-5th years in the program.

Is now the time to build a program?

WR is a position in which some guys may not need that much "building"- a true senior year may not be that much different than a rs senior year. Really though, when was the last time our WR ended up being as "stacked" as thought? Although given the systemic failures on offense it would be hard to shine at the WR position, I tend to lean it being our WR corps is average more than Epps being that good, but we will likely never know.

 

[clonedude]

I have no problem with this decision as long as the kid plays, and plays quite a bit.

If he ends up playing 10 plays all year and has one catch, then yes, it will be wasted. Don't burn his RS unless you plan on playing him IMO.

Epps' recruiting video did impress me back when he first committed. Nothing flashy, but I really noticed how well he ran his routes. Very crisp route runner, which enabled him to get open a lot. And then he seemed to have good hands too. As bad as our WR's have run routes in the past, if he can do that really well then I can see why he would play.

 

[RustShack]

A common thing is for a player to not RS if they will see significant minutes due to injury. That way they see the field some even if it's just a little bit that way they are ready when needed. Sometimes you get lucky and the injury doesn't happen. But if it does it's better for said player to have some experience and confidence instead of the injury happening and pulling the RA and throwing him to the wolves. Your best players should play plain and simple.

 

[DeereClone]

Don't agree with u. It's not burning a redshirt if the guy is talented enough to play. Burning means wasting. The whole point in redshirting someone is to get them ready to play college ball. If a player can compete right away, redshirting makes no sense.

I will gladly eat crow if he ends up being a top WR for us. I just don't see it happening with our depth and talent at WR.

 

[cayin]

skill position offensive players liker WR and RBs are more numerous and easier to recruit than linemen, and linebackers. You can afford to play them as freshmen without getting hurt to bad, if it all. In other words, there is usually no repercussions from using them right away. Contrast that with linebackers like Knott and Klein, and you pay a price for playing them to early. There is a cost involved. They only play on select plays and special teams their freshmen year, but the program long term would have been much better off to have those two redshirt and play their 5th year.

 

[demoncore1031]

Don't agree with u. It's not burning a redshirt if the guy is talented enough to play. Burning means wasting. The whole point in redshirting someone is to get them ready to play college ball. If a player can compete right away, redshirting makes no sense.

Agreed. And what if Epps suffers an injury at some point in his career? He will still have the redshirt in his back pocket. If he is good enough to play then play him. We still have a few other kids at WR to redshirt this year.

 

[madguy30]

Need depth at WR in a season where winning/being competitive is crucial, so go for it.

Unless the offensive plan is to only run 3 plays every outing (without scoring).

 

[kingcy]

I dislike this. Why waste a redshirt to give him a couple plays a game? You are robbing the team of a much more productive redshirt senior year in the future. Rhoads does this to a few players every year and I never agree. Only pull a redshirt if a kid is going to challenge to start.

If they can help the team get them on the field as soon as you can.

 

[Steve]

There should never be a blanket policy to redshirt all incoming freshmen. Decisions should be made based on what is best for the team, not what an individual player might be able to accomplish in year 5. It's easy for almost everyone to see the benefits of being a 5th year player. There are also drawbacks to not playing your top 2 to 4 players in year 1.

Team chemistry is better if the entire squad sees that the staff is doing everything in it's power to win now and doesn't play the "wait til next year game". The benefit of having a redshirt still available to use in cases of injuries in future years has already been pointed out. Freshmen who play, even in a backup role, should always be able to contribute more in year 2 than a redshirt freshman can in year 2. The reason is that they should develop faster running team scheme reps than they would running scout team reps.

The most overlooked reason for playing freshmen is that it helps improve recruiting - both in quantity and quality. Quality is improved when coaches can sell higher rated prospects on the possibility of playing early. Quantity comes into play with the 85 cap limit on scholarships. The more players that you redshirt, the smaller that future recruiting classes become. You always are going to value your productive 5th year seniors. The ones who are not able to contribute have probably already been shown the door. There will often be times when the best option is being able to sign a larger recruiting class to replace departing 4 year seniors.

 

[Bipolarcy]

When I watched the highlight video of Epps, I was reminded of Justin Blackmon, formerly of Oklahoma State and currently suspended indefinitely by the Jacksonville Jaguars for substance abuse.

Epps and Blackmon were both not that highly rated. (Blackmon was a 3-star, but rated the 10th best prospect in the state of Oklahoma and of course, Epps was a 2-star and not even ranked among the best in Oklahoma).

Epps has that same upright running style that Blackmon had and they both catch the ball with their hands as opposed to letting it get into their bodies. They both have deceptive speed, but are not what you would call blazers and they both seem to be able to catch the ball in traffic.

In addition, they are both the same height and weight, 6-2, 190, in their Rivals recruit profiles.

Now if only Epps can go on to be a two-time all-American, the comparison will be complete. You can skip the substance abuse, though Carson.