The money?????????????

[TheHelgo]

I am still waiting for an answer to this question. Did Wyoming have better facilities than ISU? Was it facilities that cost us a 28-7 halftime lead against KSU in '99? Is Boise State recruiting a higher caliber of athlete due to their superior facilities and budget? Maybe Northern Illinois has all of the tradition that ISU lacks?

Wow, you're kindof reaching a bit, aren't you? Wasn't facilities that cost any of those games - it was talent on the field. let me try this again: Shiny new facilities leads to better talent on the field, as well as better talent coaching that talent on the field. Better talent in both would have likely cemented the games you are talking about. Of course, we can't go back in time, so it is a moot point.

Honestly, I think you are just looking to stir the pot or start a fight over nothing. Don't donate if you don't support the program's attempt to upgrade.

 

[URBCLONE]

Wow, you're kindof reaching a bit, aren't you? Wasn't facilities that cost any of those games - it was talent on the field. let me try this again: Shiny new facilities leads to better talent on the field, as well as better talent coaching that talent on the field. Better talent in both would have likely cemented the games you are talking about. Of course, we can't go back in time, so it is a moot point.

Honestly, I think you are just looking to stir the pot or start a fight over nothing. Don't donate if you don't support the program's attempt to upgrade.

This is NOT about the facilities upgrades which should have been done years ago and which I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support. The point which you can not seem to grasp is that had we won these games the revenue, fan interest, marketing opportunities etc. etc. would have been much greater than where they are at now. Why didn't we win these games? It wasn't poor facilities that cost us these games. IMO these games illustrate that poor coaching has cost us many opportunities to grow as a program over the last twelve years. I am tired of the money and facilities excuse. The games are the ultimate test and I am ready for some accountability for a 54-79 record other than "Look at the poor facilities and lack of money and tradition that I have to work with".

 

[toneloc34]

I am still waiting for an answer to this question. Did Wyoming have better facilities than ISU? Was it facilities that cost us a 28-7 halftime lead against KSU in '99? Is Boise State recruiting a higher caliber of athlete due to their superior facilities and budget? Maybe Northern Illinois has all of the tradition that ISU lacks?

Better facilities and quality assistant coaches will lead to better talent on the team. You hope this leads to more wins in the long run. To pick out individual games as proof of your point is misguided.

To me, the bigger issue is our inability to pay for better assistant coaches. Or to retain the quality coaches developed internally. Bringing in more talented assistant coaches means a better prepared team on the field. You would also hope to have better schemes put together to utilize the player's talent. We are unlikely to ever have such spectatular facilities that would overcome this hurdle.

 

[Wesley]

Actually people, I think this debate is more about scoreboards. It is simple.
The bigger the scoreboard, the better the replays, the more the fans are willing to pay, the more the coach can make, the more you can hire better recruiters, the better the recruits, the easier to coach with better talent, the easier to call better plays, the more wins in the end, the better bowls to attend, the more you need the bigger scoreboard. Real simple. Like ISO 14000.

 

[acrozier22]

Callahan gets 1.5 million. If Nebraska can land an ex-NFL coach for 1.5 million, we can spend that much and get just as good of a coach.

 

[TheHelgo]

This is NOT about the facilities upgrades which should have been done years ago and which I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support. The point which you can not seem to grasp is that had we won these games the revenue, fan interest, marketing opportunities etc. etc. would have been much greater than where they are at now. Why didn't we win these games? It wasn't poor facilities that cost us these games. IMO these games illustrate that poor coaching has cost us many opportunities to grow as a program over the last twelve years. I am tired of the money and facilities excuse. The games are the ultimate test and I am ready for some accountability for a 54-79 record other than "Look at the poor facilities and lack of money and tradition that I have to work with".

well, you know what - once the facilities are in place, we will no longer hear that excuse because it won't apply. Once step at a time, my friend.

 

[brianhos]

I am still waiting for an answer to this question. Did Wyoming have better facilities than ISU? Was it facilities that cost us a 28-7 halftime lead against KSU in '99? Is Boise State recruiting a higher caliber of athlete due to their superior facilities and budget? Maybe Northern Illinois has all of the tradition that ISU lacks?

Following that logic, we should have NEVER beaten Iowa last year, they have better facilities, and tradition, and what about Neb two years ago, that must not have happend. What about A&M last year, no one would ever claim we have more $$ than they do, so I must hallucinating when I remember a vicrtory over them.

 

[garn91]

Better facilities equals better recruits. Recruits are attracted to facilities that have all the bells and whistles.

 

[cyclonekj]

Callahan gets 1.5 million. If Nebraska can land an ex-NFL coach for 1.5 million, we can spend that much and get just as good of a coach.

It's not like NU had to lure him away from Oakland with that money. He was basically run out of the NFL for the wrong-way turnaround he orchestrated with the Raiders.

 

[Zfor3484]

There are many factors IMO from which recruits decide(not in any particular order):

1. City
2. Weather
3. Facilities
4. Prestige of program
5. Coach

IMO if you have cold weather and a "good" but not "great" program, you need to make up for it in other areas, such as facilitites....The debate could go on forever :rofl8yi:

 

[threemuch]

Sorry to jump into this SO late, but IMHO

Money=NAME RECOGNITION coaching

Money=First class facilities and equipment

Money=More time and bigger staff focused on recruiting

Name recognition coaching + First class facilities and equipment+more time and bigger staff focused on recruiting=better atheletes

Better atheletes means more wins, more wins means more money and the cycle repeats. Dynasties are made, not found.

How much do you think coaching matters? 10%? 20%? I don't think it is more than that. I think most college coaches are pretty close, but some know how to recruit better than others. They all know the fundamentals fo the game. They have decent teaching skills. But without the best clay to start with, you are lost. Great coaching in college is all about recruiting.

Most talent on the field usually wins.

 

[CloneForever]

First, your analogy is false. Bill Gates essentially invented something new and beat everyone to the punch, with the possible exception of Apple. We are not inventing anything new.

Perhaps the reason we lost those games was money. Money to attract better coaches. Money on facilities that would have attracted better kids. To look at it another way, perhaps we got what we paid for - an improved program that still is several athletes from getting to that proverbial next level.

Anything before '99 shouldn't be really considered. Our program and facilites were in the bottom 15% of Division 1. We are now in the middle of Division 1, but our budget and facilities are in the bottom fourth of the Big XII.

If money didn't make a difference, the other schools wouldn't be collecting and spending it.

 

[TheHelgo]

If money didn't make a difference, the other schools wouldn't be collecting and spending it.

i.e Indiana University, who finally realized that tradition could no longer overrule the fact that their facitlities are very subpar - much like ISU's.

 

[URBCLONE]

well, you know what - once the facilities are in place, we will no longer hear that excuse because it won't apply. Once step at a time, my friend.

So, until the facilities are built, we have a built-in excuse every time we lose to Texas, Nebraska, OU, Iowa etc. etc. etc. ? Another poster on here claims coaching is only 10-20% of the game in college. Funny, could have sworn that Purdue did nothing until Joe Tiller came along, same for Snyder at KSU, Alvarez at Wisconsin, Beamer at Va Tech etc. etc. etc.

Maybe, we should just stop with all the pretense and grant DM a lifetime contract as ISU's head coach. After all, if he loses a game it is because of ISU's terrible reputation, facilities, money, fans, home city etc. When we win a game or go to a bowl it is ALL because of DM's "building a program". So, credit for success, no demerit for failure. Sounds like a great job.

 

[CloneForever]

Maybe, we should just stop with all the pretense and grant DM a lifetime contract as ISU's head coach. After all, if he loses a game it is because of ISU's terrible reputation, facilities, money, fans, home city etc. When we win a game or go to a bowl it is ALL because of DM's "building a program". So, credit for success, no demerit for failure. Sounds like a great job.

I am sorry. I didn't realize this was a post about coaching abilities. I thought it was a post about facilities and spending money. Could "better coaching decisions" have affected those games. Maybe. Or just maybe we were as close as we were because of the coaching decisions that got us there. Or perhaps we just didn't have as many good football players.

That facilities upgrades are needed - with or without Dan McCarney. Those two issues are not related. (need for facilities v. Mac's abilities as a coach.)

 

[cycloneworld]

So, until the facilities are built, we have a built-in excuse every time we lose to Texas, Nebraska, OU, Iowa etc. etc. etc. ? Another poster on here claims coaching is only 10-20% of the game in college. Funny, could have sworn that Purdue did nothing until Joe Tiller came along, same for Snyder at KSU, Alvarez at Wisconsin, Beamer at Va Tech etc. etc. etc.

Maybe, we should just stop with all the pretense and grant DM a lifetime contract as ISU's head coach. After all, if he loses a game it is because of ISU's terrible reputation, facilities, money, fans, home city etc. When we win a game or go to a bowl it is ALL because of DM's "building a program". So, credit for success, no demerit for failure. Sounds like a great job.

*Sigh*...Was it Mac that fumbled on the 1 yard line against Baylor? Was it Mac that missed a 24-yd field goal against Missouri? Was it Mac that missed a field goal at Kansas last year? And on and on and on. Mac's coaching put us in those positions to win and the players didn't come through. How is that his fault?

You never answered my question about the games we won where we weren't supposed to. How do you explain those? Or doesn't that fit in with your "Mac=sh*t" campaign???

 

[URBCLONE]

That facilities upgrades are needed - with or without Dan McCarney. Those two issues are not related. (need for facilities v. Mac's abilities as a coach.)

And here we are in COMPLETE agreement. I am simply trying to make the point that it is tiring to listen to all of the excuses as to why we cannot succeed at ISU every time we lose to the likes of UT. My point is that we have lost multiple games over the course of his tenure at ISU where the competition had equal or lesser talent, equal or lesser facilities, and supposedly equal or lesser coaching.

It's funny, all of the pro-DM people on this thread say that more money buys better coaches. I thought that we couldn't hire anyone better for ISU than DM?

 

[cycloneworld]

My point is that we have lost multiple games over the course of his tenure at ISU where the competition had equal or lesser talent, equal or lesser facilities, and supposedly equal or lesser coaching.

And my point is that we have won multiple games over the course of his tenure at ISU where the competition have equal or greater talet, equal or greater facilities, and supposedly equal or greater coaching.

Your argument doesn't make sense with the exception of talent. We don't send Mac and our coaches to play Nebraska and their coaches. We don't send our Bergstrom Indoor Practice Facility to go at it with Texas' $8 million scoreboard. We send our players to play their players.

 

[URBCLONE]

And my point is that we have won multiple games over the course of his tenure at ISU where the competition have equal or greater talet, equal or greater facilities, and supposedly equal or greater coaching.

Your argument doesn't make sense with the exception of talent. We don't send Mac and our coaches to play Nebraska and their coaches. We don't send our Bergstrom Indoor Practice Facility to go at it with Texas' $8 million scoreboard. We send our players to play their players.

Exactly! Facilities, money, budgets, atmosphere don't win or lose games. Players and coaches do! So, the next time we lose to the likes of UT or anyone with better facilities, atmosphere, budget etc. I am asking the dM loyalist to avoid resorting to that excuse in his defense. A coach is responsible for recruiting players, hiring assistants and winning games. I'm tired of hearing how bad things were in the '80s and '90s. If ISU is "too tough of a job" for DM, then perhaps it is time for someone else to try his mettle at this institution.

 

[Covenant Clone]

My point is that we have lost multiple games over the course of his tenure at ISU where the competition had equal or lesser talent, equal or lesser facilities, and supposedly equal or lesser coaching.

If you want to use that arguement, everytime Texas or USC losses a game it must be because their coach sucks. Every team they play has lesser talent, every team they play has lesser facilities. They should probably fire them!

I don't want better facilities and more money so we can attract a different coach to ISU, I want better facilites and more money so Dan can be on the same playing field as the coaches that have those things. Take Mac Brown, great coach with unlimited resources and the best facilities in the country. He can recruit anyone he wants and any assistant coach he wants and he has used that to his advantage. I am not saying that ISU will ever have the budget or the facilities that Texas has but improvement will give whoever the coach is a better opportunity to attract better and better talent to ISU.