Youth sports business - viewed by Michael Lewis

[qwerty]

Very interesting interview with author Michael Lewis (Moneyball, Blindside, many other best sellers).

Youth sports these days is pretty much professional, thus I posted in here. According to ML the total $ spent on youth sports in U.S. is greater than $ spent on professional sports.
Like a lot of people, he decrees the specialization, monetization and professionalization of youth sports.
He was a big Mike Leach fan and was going to basically live with him to get the inside on college football, then Leach passed away.

I first knew Lewis as a business book author (Big Short, Liar's Poker, Flash Boys). He is a fascinating guy.

 

[CYdTracked]

It is getting crazy these days on just how much money there is in youth sports. I mean just look at the recent issue with the Ignit volleyball here in Iowa that closed. According to 1 article I saw one of the mother's said they paid $3000 for her daughter to participate on one of the teams and a coach said they spent $11,000 to practice at their building. If you go to some of these youth baseball and softball tournaments most of the teams have these big professionally made banners they hang up on the back of their dugouts with all their sponsors on it. I know practice space in all youth sports are hard to come by these days and cost a pretty penny to rent as well. I get irked if I want to see a niece or nephew play in a weekend tournament it may cost up to $10 a person just to get in as spectator too.

I don't think either of my daughters will be star athletes, so we've only signed them up for rec sports up to this point until either show they are capable of playing a higher level of competition then we'll come across that bridge if we need to but so far neither have shown enough ability yet alone interest in playing anything more competitive than what they have so far.

 

[ScottyP]

I was recently at a conference last week that had a speaker discuss travel sports and the effect on kids and parents. He mentioned that kids struggle mentally because that sport becomes their identity and once they get to a level of failure, they don't know how to handle things because it is all they know. There is a reason why many college coaches have stressed the importance of playing multiple sports because it actually helps the athletes

 

[NATEizKING]

Biting the bullet for soccer for my 9yo for next fall/spring and trying out for best DM clubs. Plays up 2 years and competition in his team not good enough still. Will miss paying $140 a season but not much choice at this point.

Thought we were going to do travel baseball but it was $450 and he hasn't even played rec. That doesn't include equipment or uniform. Travel basketball was $80 for 4 tournaments plus 1-2 practices a week but have same talent level issues.

 

[Clonehomer]

It is getting crazy these days on just how much money there is in youth sports. I mean just look at the recent issue with the Ignit volleyball here in Iowa that closed. According to 1 article I saw one of the mother's said they paid $3000 for her daughter to participate on one of the teams and a coach said they spent $11,000 to practice at their building. If you go to some of these youth baseball and softball tournaments most of the teams have these big professionally made banners they hang up on the back of their dugouts with all their sponsors on it. I know practice space in all youth sports are hard to come by these days and cost a pretty penny to rent as well. I get irked if I want to see a niece or nephew play in a weekend tournament it may cost up to $10 a person just to get in as spectator too.

I don't think either of my daughters will be star athletes, so we've only signed them up for rec sports up to this point until either show they are capable of playing a higher level of competition then we'll come across that bridge if we need to but so far neither have shown enough ability yet alone interest in playing anything more competitive than what they have so far.

Local parks and rec divisions have been replaced with private for-profit business. This is what you get.

Lower taxes, but that burden is shifted to young parents if they want their kids to do things other than watch TV and play video games. So, we have more and more kids that don’t get opportunities to play sports because parents can’t justify $1,000-$10,000 a season.

 

[Beerbrat]

Very interesting interview with author Michael Lewis (Moneyball, Blindside, many other best sellers).

Youth sports these days is pretty much professional, thus I posted in here. According to ML the total $ spent on youth sports in U.S. is greater than $ spent on professional sports.
Like a lot of people, he decrees the specialization, monetization and professionalization of youth sports.
He was a big Mike Leach fan and was going to basically live with him to get the inside on college football, then Leach passed away.

I first knew Lewis as a business book author (Big Short, Liar's Poker, Flash Boys). He is a fascinating guy.

I listened to this a little over a year ago and thought it was interesting. A little focus on the $$$ but more on the psychology of the parents and coaches involved: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-to-Win/dp/B08DL7ZJDX

 

[Clonefan32]

It's a wild world. I know a local family who has 4 kids on one of the main basketball clubs. Have to be looking at $20,000 a year when you factor in travel, etc.-- and these don't strike me as people with money to burn. You are looking at spending enough money over the course of 7-10 years to damn near put all 4 through college.

 

[Beernuts]

The Youth Sports industry is praying on parents / grandparents, and the biggest loser in this madness are the kids. Parents are "buying" into their sales pitch that in order to compete, we need to participate year around in training / competitions.

What is happening is the kids' childhood is being stolen from them for the whisper that your kid is special, and for only a few dollars and some weekend travel your kid will develop into a D1 athlete.

Here is the honest truth....if your kid is truly one of the 1% that has the ability to play D1 athletics...that talent will be discovered regardless of all the money you have spent.

And the worst sin is the amount of valuable family time that is being sacrificed for this lie. Family vacations...sorry we have a AAU tournament in Minneapolis, Sunday Church...no we have a 5 year old soccer game scheduled in Waukee, Grandparents want to take us fishing...no our baseball team is playing in KC for the 3d time this month. Absolute madness!

 

[Drew0311]

I spent a ton on my daughters soccer when she was growing up. She played on a Traveling team at VSA in Waukee. Ill never regret it. We spent so much time together traveling around. Hotels all over the country, driving all around the midwest to get her to games, the time she spent with her team. She didn't want to play college soccer so we didn't have to go through all of that. A lot of college soccer coaches tried talking her into playing and she didn't want to. So we had no delusions of paying all this money for a D1 scholly. I knew what it was. So I would highly suggest if you have the money and don't mind doing it, it's so worth it. It creates a great bond. I think the problem exists is parents who think they have the next D1 star on their hands and they are spending the money to get a payoff.

 

[Clonefan32]

I was actually just thinking about this because I saw a local facility brought in a "trainer" to get you ready for the summer season (because it's been like 3 weeks since basketball ended) at $60 bucks a kid. I'll bet there were 50 kids there all to have some guy have them dribble through some cones and take pull up jumpshots. Go shoot in your damn driveway.

 

[BryceC]

The Youth Sports industry is praying on parents / grandparents, and the biggest loser in this madness are the kids. Parents are "buying" into their sales pitch that in order to compete, we need to participate year around in training / competitions.

What is happening is the kids' childhood is being stolen from them for the whisper that your kid is special, and for only a few dollars and some weekend travel your kid will develop into a D1 athlete.

Here is the honest truth....if your kid is truly one of the 1% that has the ability to play D1 athletics...that talent will be discovered regardless of all the money you have spent.

And the worst sin is the amount of valuable family time that is being sacrificed for this lie. Family vacations...sorry we have a AAU tournament in Minneapolis, Sunday Church...no we have a 5 year old soccer game scheduled in Waukee, Grandparents want to take us fishing...no our baseball team is playing in KC for the 3d time this month. Absolute madness!

My kids play both rec and club sports and the one thing I’ll say here is you have the family time thing exactly backwards.

I spend way more time with my kids than I did with my parents. Like it’s not even close.

There are also levels to clubs. My kids played club baseball, but both are on parent led teams. Fees are about 800/yr. Sounds like a lot but shoot Little League in Ankeny is 300/yr now.

We don’t travel outside the metro for games. So no overnights.

I think most people know what they are getting to with club sports. I don’t think any of my kids will play anything after high school. But man they are having a lot of fun with it right now.

For the record I’m back down coaching Little League 9 year olds. My youngest will never play club sports, doesn’t have the passion for it. He might be the worst player on the team this year. But we are gonna have a fun time.

 

[CYdTracked]

Biting the bullet for soccer for my 9yo for next fall/spring and trying out for best DM clubs. Plays up 2 years and competition in his team not good enough still. Will miss paying $140 a season but not much choice at this point.

Thought we were going to do travel baseball but it was $450 and he hasn't even played rec. That doesn't include equipment or uniform. Travel basketball was $80 for 4 tournaments plus 1-2 practices a week but have same talent level issues.

$140 is not bad for soccer. My oldest plays 12u rec soccer club that is $75 a season but any tournaments we play in we pay out of pocket for so those can be around $40 a tournament. My youngest is playing 10u academy soccer club (actually playing up from 9u as they needed more in 10u and she has an older birthdate) and that is $275 but that covers everything including any tournaments they play in. The academy program also is a little more of a development program too compared to the rec program. Going from my wife having to volunteer to coach her rec team since no one else would to having 4 coaches this season, lol.

My older daughter has had the same core group of girls on her team for about 4 years now and the group of parents for the most part just want to keep our kids playing rec for now so been fun watching them get better over the years since they only lose/add 1 or 2 kids every season it seems like and they get challenged against good teams when we play in tournaments as most seasons the don't lose many games in league play. Will be interesting this fall when they have to move from 9v9 to 11v11 and play on a regular size field for the 1st time.

 

[Beernuts]

My kids play both rec and club sports and the one thing I’ll say here is you have the family time thing exactly backwards.

I spend way more time with my kids than I did with my parents. Like it’s not even close.

There are also levels to clubs. My kids played club baseball, but both are on parent led teams. Fees are about 800/yr. Sounds like a lot but shoot Little League in Ankeny is 300/yr now.

We don’t travel outside the metro for games. So no overnights.

I think most people know what they are getting to with club sports. I don’t think any of my kids will play anything after high school. But man they are having a lot of fun with it right now.

For the record I’m back down coaching Little League 9 year olds. My youngest will never play club sports, doesn’t have the passion for it. He might be the worst player on the team this year. But we are gonna have a fun time.

And that is awesome! We loved sports as well and our kids played on our school and small town community teams. But like you we were also realistic. Just like band or 4-H etc, sports can be a great part of childhood development, learning and fun...however, when whatever activity starts stealing away that time and enjoyment, then it becomes damaging to the kid and family.

 

[Clonehomer]

My kids play both rec and club sports and the one thing I’ll say here is you have the family time thing exactly backwards.

I spend way more time with my kids than I did with my parents. Like it’s not even close.

There are also levels to clubs. My kids played club baseball, but both are on parent led teams. Fees are about 800/yr. Sounds like a lot but shoot Little League in Ankeny is 300/yr now.

We don’t travel outside the metro for games. So no overnights.

I think most people know what they are getting to with club sports. I don’t think any of my kids will play anything after high school. But man they are having a lot of fun with it right now.

For the record I’m back down coaching Little League 9 year olds. My youngest will never play club sports, doesn’t have the passion for it. He might be the worst player on the team this year. But we are gonna have a fun time.

I think this is the key. Are the parents involved and volunteering, or are they treating it like evening daycare? The point is to make connections to your kids. Be involved. If you can volunteer to help coach, do it. If sports aren’t their thing, be a scout leader. The issue is that so many of these leagues hire professional coaches and often don’t want parents around because the helicopter parents are too much to deal with. So you end up dropping your kid off and pick them up when they’re done. Yes, you travel places with them, but it isn’t that same connection that you used to have with parents you knew coaching and teaching the kids how to play the game.

 

[jbhtexas]

The Youth Sports industry is praying on parents / grandparents, and the biggest loser in this madness are the kids. Parents are "buying" into their sales pitch that in order to compete, we need to participate year around in training / competitions.

What is happening is the kids' childhood is being stolen from them for the whisper that your kid is special, and for only a few dollars and some weekend travel your kid will develop into a D1 athlete.

Here is the honest truth....if your kid is truly one of the 1% that has the ability to play D1 athletics...that talent will be discovered regardless of all the money you have spent.

And the worst sin is the amount of valuable family time that is being sacrificed for this lie. Family vacations...sorry we have a AAU tournament in Minneapolis, Sunday Church...no we have a 5 year old soccer game scheduled in Waukee, Grandparents want to take us fishing...no our baseball team is playing in KC for the 3d time this month. Absolute madness!

And now there is the NIL carrot out there to chase in addition to the scholarship carrot.

 

[CYdTracked]

The Youth Sports industry is praying on parents / grandparents, and the biggest loser in this madness are the kids. Parents are "buying" into their sales pitch that in order to compete, we need to participate year around in training / competitions.

What is happening is the kids' childhood is being stolen from them for the whisper that your kid is special, and for only a few dollars and some weekend travel your kid will develop into a D1 athlete.

Here is the honest truth....if your kid is truly one of the 1% that has the ability to play D1 athletics...that talent will be discovered regardless of all the money you have spent.

And the worst sin is the amount of valuable family time that is being sacrificed for this lie. Family vacations...sorry we have a AAU tournament in Minneapolis, Sunday Church...no we have a 5 year old soccer game scheduled in Waukee, Grandparents want to take us fishing...no our baseball team is playing in KC for the 3d time this month. Absolute madness!

You'd be surprised how much being part of an AAU traveling team will help those kids get college offers and opportunties. I have friends and family that have kids in those and the tournaments they play in not only are their kids getting to play against some good teams but some of those are where college scouts discover them too. I have a friend whose daughter got an offer to play juco softball that she probably would not have got if she wasn't playing on 1 of those teams. I have a niece that pitches for a small school that is getting all kinds of college offers because of travel team tournaments and camps she has been to. Her team was runner up in the state tournament once so yes they probably would have found her that way too but the travel team is where most of the interest has come from probably.

I'm not against club sports, if my kids were good enough to play at that level and had the passion to do it then I'd find a way to afford it. Neither of them have shown enough skill or passion up to this point in any sport to do it so my checkbook is thankful for that. My oldest is more into the arts and music so will support her in that aspect if she pursues that more over sports as she gets older.

 

[drmwevr08]

My kids just aged out of this nonsense and I think they got some of the last of what was good about youth sports. They really had a poor experience with tackle football though. There was a system in place and if you weren't in it (or amazing) it was a poor experience with little coaching or chance at playing time. There is no worldly reason to care so much about 10 year olds winning games to run things this way and it was a bummer. Luckily we found a few leagues here and there that they really enjoyed and had a ton of fun. I feel like that's now much harder than it should be and markedly different from when our first started in about 2001.

 

[CyCrazy]

Local parks and rec divisions have been replaced with private for-profit business. This is what you get.

Lower taxes, but that burden is shifted to young parents if they want their kids to do things other than watch TV and play video games. So, we have more and more kids that don’t get opportunities to play sports because parents can’t justify $1,000-$10,000 a season.

There is still plenty of Parks and Rec sports out there. That is where my girls play everything but track. We do use a club for track but the costs are obviously not ridiculous.

 

[NATEizKING]

$140 is not bad for soccer. My oldest plays 12u rec soccer club that is $75 a season but any tournaments we play in we pay out of pocket for so those can be around $40 a tournament. My youngest is playing 10u academy soccer club (actually playing up from 9u as they needed more in 10u and she has an older birthdate) and that is $275 but that covers everything including any tournaments they play in. The academy program also is a little more of a development program too compared to the rec program. Going from my wife having to volunteer to coach her rec team since no one else would to having 4 coaches this season, lol.

My older daughter has had the same core group of girls on her team for about 4 years now and the group of parents for the most part just want to keep our kids playing rec for now so been fun watching them get better over the years since they only lose/add 1 or 2 kids every season it seems like and they get challenged against good teams when we play in tournaments as most seasons the don't lose many games in league play. Will be interesting this fall when they have to move from 9v9 to 11v11 and play on a regular size field for the 1st time.

No Academy here either so that sucks, had to play in Rec Central until U11. Each season was 4 games of winning by 15+, another 2-3 games of winning by 5+ then 1-2 competitive games. Would still have 2 kids and 4 years of that incoming if we weren't looking elsewhere. They also have to combine 3 age groups for girls sometimes to get a travel team so another future issue for my youngest. U6/U8 are coed and there's about 10 teams in each age group but only 1 or 2 girls per team.

 

[BryceC]

I think this is the key. Are the parents involved and volunteering, or are they treating it like evening daycare? The point is to make connections to your kids. Be involved. If you can volunteer to help coach, do it. If sports aren’t their thing, be a scout leader. The issue is that so many of these leagues hire professional coaches and often don’t want parents around because the helicopter parents are too much to deal with. So you end up dropping your kid off and pick them up when they’re done. Yes, you travel places with them, but it isn’t that same connection that you used to have with parents you knew coaching and teaching the kids how to play the game.

Some people don’t feel comfortable volunteering or coaching. Some people drop their kids for LL too. It’s fine. It’s good for kids to learn to fit in with a new group of kids and coaches.