Super Noob honest question

[BryceC]

I was discussing Bastida and Attasauov with a friend of mine and he was telling me that because of the way they wrestle (returning to neutral basically constantly) that international wrestlers are basically bad on the ground in general and really good from neutral. My question, is there a NCAA program that targets these guys and if not why doesn't ISU or another program specifically target them and build their coaching staff and strategy around it? I mean it seems like it would be a good idea to me to get the best possible international wrestlers and just build a program with a style that's hard to prepare for. But I don't know if that's feasible at all. Just a hypothetical conversation about it.

 

[BCClone]

I was discussing Bastida and Attasauov with a friend of mine and he was telling me that because of the way they wrestle (returning to neutral basically constantly) that international wrestlers are basically bad on the ground in general and really good from neutral. My question, is there a NCAA program that targets these guys and if not why doesn't ISU or another program specifically target them and build their coaching staff and strategy around it? I mean it seems like it would be a good idea to me to get the best possible international wrestlers and just build a program with a style that's hard to prepare for. But I don't know if that's feasible at all. Just a hypothetical conversation about it.

Because they are so bad in the mat that once taken down they can never get out. The Cuban is a good example.

 

[GMackey32]

They are really good at freestyle wrestling but NCAA wrestling is folkstyle. They are good on their feet but don't have the refined mat wrestling skills which puts them at a disadvantage when wrestling other college wrestlers who grew up wrestling folkstyle.

 

[BryceC]

They are really good at freestyle wrestling but NCAA wrestling is folkstyle. They are good on their feet but don't have the refined mat wrestling skills which puts them at a disadvantage when wrestling other college wrestlers who grew up wrestling folkstyle.

I mean I know why they aren't good on their feet, but some of them are obviously good enough to compete in folkstyle. I guess I think it would make sense to me for somebody to target them, then build a coaching philosophy around their strengths and try to shore up their weaknesses.

 

[JM4CY]

Because they are so bad in the mat that once taken down they can never get out. The Cuban is a good example.

This. The Cuban is so damn elite on his feet that it makes up for a lot of it. Go look up some of his matches last year. It was brutal. He’s able to hide it some and will only get better. But many guys aren’t at his level with leg attacks, etc, to make up for it.

 

[GMackey32]

I mean I know why they aren't good on their feet, but some of them are obviously good enough to compete in folkstyle. I guess I think it would make sense to me for somebody to target them, then build a coaching philosophy around their strengths and try to shore up their weaknesses.

They'd have to be elite on their feet and even then you're playing with fire because all it takes is being taken down once and they'll be at the mercy of their opponent on the mat.

 

[cywr89]

I love how this folklore continues to grow. Yes, he had problems last year but if you look at his losses I believe every one of them was to a Top 10 or AA kid. Most wrestlers would have problems on the mat with those guys. This year he has hardly been on the bottom and not since NOVEMBER so no one really knows how much he has improved. But keep throwing the theory out there that he totally sucks on the bottom.

 

[GMackey32]

In theory, you could build a team around elite freestyle wrestlers and coach that way, but many coaches are risk adverse. You can expose yourself pretty quickly against top guys if you aren't a good mat wrestler.

 

[DantheFan]

Bastida certainly seems like he is figuring out the mat wrestling and the overall pace of folkstyle. He has looked wicked good so far. I think it's definitely possible to get more guys into the states and have them succeed, but it's definitely a gamble.

Echemendia at tOSU is another Cuban transplant. He is very good from his feet and a great freestyler (terrible human being it seems), but he has not been able to crack the lineup at tOSU.

Also, Cuba is probably one of the few places where the elite wrestlers are willing to transplant elsewhere as the country doesn't support the sport very well. In other countries, they compensate the best wrestlers well enough that I'd be surprised to see any leave.

Attasauov is a bit of a different case as he was born in Russia, learned Freestyle first, then was in the states for a couple/few years wrestling some folkstyle in high school before coming to ISU.

 

[CyCloneRastlinG]

It isn’t a bad idea and trust me, coaches and teams try. There was a phenomenal athlete and wrestler from Cuba who cyclones were trying to recruit but he ended up at Ohio state. Much time, money and resources have been poured into the kid I’m sure and he isn’t even close to making their line up at a weak weight. It is so hit and miss with international guys. They don’t train like we do, they don’t know English for the most part and have to learn it. They have to take on the academics and can struggle big time. They aren’t used to the grind: they compete a couple times a year in other countries. So many reasons why all the time, money, and efforts can fail.

 

[CyCloneRastlinG]

I love how this folklore continues to grow. Yes, he had problems last year but if you look at his losses I believe every one of them was to a Top 10 or AA kid. Most wrestlers would have problems on the mat with those guys. This year he has hardly been on the bottom and not since NOVEMBER so no one really knows how much he has improved. But keep throwing the theory out there that he totally sucks on the bottom.

I think it can be summed up like this. He was really bad underneath last year. Really really bad. He had a terrible gas tank. Dresser got him in shape and his skills on his feet have shined now that he has conditioning. Now, no one knows how good or bad he is on bottom because he hasn’t been underneath anyone. But the truth remains the same: if he wants to AA or even high AA, he’s got to get through a series of matches where they game plan against his style.

 

[Boxer007]

And the fact he chooses not to go down seems to indicate a lack of faith in his underneath game. Right? Basically giving up a point.

 

[Cyforce]

This. The Cuban is so damn elite on his feet that it makes up for a lot of it. Go look up some of his matches last year. It was brutal. He’s able to hide it some and will only get better. But many guys aren’t at his level with leg attacks, etc, to make up for it.

I know he takes neutral but has anyone chosen up against him?

 

[bear24]

His mat wrestling looked better tonight than last year. He got a couple of escapes and rode for a bit, granted it was Bakersfield

 

[ricochet]

I know he takes neutral but has anyone chosen up against him?

The guy tonight did although Bastida got out pretty easily. He also got reversed but made the escape pretty easily that time too. I'm very curious to see if some of the better guys start doing it and if so what happens.

 

[stuclone]

I know it wasn't high level competition, but I was very encouraged by a couple of mat wrestling situations from Yonger's match. First, he was able to ride the last 20 or so seconds of the period after getting a takedown. Being able to keep a guy down for 20 seconds could be key for him come March, and avoiding giving up an escape in the final seconds is a great confidence booster. The other was when he got reversed and was flat, and he was able to build a base and escape with ease. He is athletic and strong enough that he should be able to escape from bottom every time. Huge match Friday for him and I'm excited to see how he competes against a top 5 guy.

 

[JM4CY]

I know it wasn't high level competition, but I was very encouraged by a couple of mat wrestling situations from Yonger's match. First, he was able to ride the last 20 or so seconds of the period after getting a takedown. Being able to keep a guy down for 20 seconds could be key for him come March, and avoiding giving up an escape in the final seconds is a great confidence booster. The other was when he got reversed and was flat, and he was able to build a base and escape with ease. He is athletic and strong enough that he should be able to escape from bottom every time. Huge match Friday for him and I'm excited to see how he competes against a top 5 guy.

I knew he had some tough matches coming but didn't realize how big his next month is until I read Jacqueline's write up. Could be a fun month to watch him. Pissed that it looks like tomorrow night is on Flo.

 

[CyCloneRastlinG]

Since this has turned into talking about Yonger.. Flowrestling has him ranked at 12. Wasn’t he winning that match pretty good where he got caught and pinned at Dak? They have Warner at 3 who Yonger beat. Makes no sense.

 

[JM4CY]

Since this has turned into talking about Yonger.. Flowrestling has him ranked at 12. Wasn’t he winning that match pretty good where he got caught and pinned at Dak? They have Warner at 3 who Yonger beat. Makes no sense.

Yes. I think he might of been on his way to a major before that happened. I'm thinking Warner's ranking might be bumped a little based on his singlet.

 

[WhizzerClone]

I think his gas tank was his biggest issue last year. He would go out and fire off 6 shots in the 1st and be gassed halfway through the 2nd. Dresser seemed to address this with him and now he wrestles a little more strategically against better opponents.