Stop!

[Cloned4Life]

OK, explain to me how Homan shot 43% in his senior year and 44% for his career at ISU. He was not a stretch 5 so all of his shots were point blank. Homan‘s last game was his best game at ISU and most people only remember his best game at ISU. He was a tough rebounder and defender but he was not a good offensive player. He averaged 13 points per game in his senior year but he attempted about 12 shots a game and only made 43%. He was a good player overall but offense was not his forte

lol still at this! Crazy! Cannot recall a sillier hill to die on for Cyclone fans.

Sure, a few folks sort of remember a blowout loss against UNC where he put up some decent numbers in a huge blowout loss. Literally no one remembers him “only for that”. He was here forever, having quite a few memorable moments throughout his career, under 2 different coaching staffs.

The vast majority correctly remember Homan as a really, really solid all-around player who worked hard, played hard, and became quite competent on the offensive side of the ball, particularly his JR and SR years. He shot plenty of jump shots (unlike BRE who might not actually be able to physically shoot a basketball). Like, actual jump shots. Baseline 15 footers. Elbow J’s, fadaway jumps from the post, etc. Homan did all of this. Demonstrated a solid left hand finish as well. Elite offensive lplayer? Nope. But solid, and came up big in big games plenty of times.

I’m literally laughing at loud at the prospect of someone remembering Homan’s shot chart and thinking it is similar to Rob Jones’

 

[Lineup]

Season Highs​

Season Highs

Statistic	Value	Date	Opponent
Points	11	12/08/22	at Iowa
Minutes	27	12/08/22	at Iowa
Field Goals Made	5	01/07/23	at TCU
Field Goal Attempts	11	11/25/22	vs North Carolina
3-Point Field Goals Made	0	02/04/23	Kansas
3-Point Field Goal Attempts	0	02/04/23	Kansas
Free Throws Made	3	12/04/22	St. John's (NY)
Free Throw Attempts	6	12/04/22	St. John's (NY)
Rebounds	10	12/08/22	at Iowa
Assists	5	12/18/22	Western Mich.
Blocks	1	01/30/23	at Texas Tech
Steals	2	01/28/23	at Missouri

 

[Pharmacy99]

lol still at this! Crazy! Cannot recall a sillier hill to die on for Cyclone fans.

Sure, a few folks sort of remember a blowout loss against UNC where he put up some decent numbers in a huge blowout loss. Literally no one remembers him “only for that”. He was here forever, having quite a few memorable moments throughout his career, under 2 different coaching staffs.

The vast majority correctly remember Homan as a really, really solid all-around player who worked hard, played hard, and became quite competent on the offensive side of the ball, particularly his JR and SR years. He shot plenty of jump shots (unlike BRE who might not actually be able to physically shoot a basketball). Like, actual jump shots. Baseline 15 footers. Elbow J’s, fadaway jumps from the post, etc. Homan did all of this. Demonstrated a solid left hand finish as well. Elite offensive lplayer? Nope. But solid, and came up big in big games plenty of times.

I’m literally laughing at loud at the prospect of someone remembering Homan’s shot chart and thinking it is similar to Rob Jones’

No, he wasn’t. Yes, he had short turn around jumper that he usually missed. He had no post moves. Most of his points were layups from good passes from Blalock/Stinson and put backs.

 

[gocy444]

Big Rob is a very valuable 5-15 min a game garbage guy. We should never be tossing him the ball down low.

 

[BCClone]

I don't pretend to know more than the coaching staff but love the false hyperbole coming from the Defenders. What I have stated is that there is clear empirical evidence that Bob is a substandard player and that King is/would be a much better option. Given Bob's difficulties is perplexing and inexcusable for the staff not to try King at the 5. If it works as well as I suspect it would, that is a HUGE swing in productive minutes. We are talking about 2-3 (potential) close game wins.

I stand behind that assessment as well as the assertion the staff has bungled this part of the rotation. Obviously the staff has done a wonderful job crafting the team, getting players to buy in, coaxing maximal effort, instilling a tough brand of defense, and getting the guys to play as a team. That doesn't mean their above reproach for making decisions, and repeatedly, that really aren't defensible.

Talking about the team is what the message board is for. Both good and bad.

Tre and bob play together many times, who takes Kings spot when king takes Bob’s then.

 

[ZRF]

Tre and bob play together many times, who takes Kings spot when king takes Bob’s then.

With Kunc back he and or Watson can play some 4. When we roll a starting 5 of Osun, Holmes, Grill, Gabe, and Lipsey we really don't have a true 4 anyway. Basically I think that is less consequential than force feeding Bob minutes simply because "he's a 5".

Basically seven players, the starting 5 as well as King and Kunc, should get 90-95 percent of our minutes. The rest go to Watson and Ward/BRE in that order. In some situations foul trouble or injury could skew those percentages. But I think you get the general idea.

 

[madguy30]

when you shoot 30% you will get picked on

He shoots 42% FG.

Caleb Grill shot 30% yesterday. Wonder when that thread's going to get revved up.

 

[isuclone89]

With Kunc back he and or Watson can play some 4. When we roll a starting 5 of Osun, Holmes, Grill, Gabe, and Lipsey we really don't have a true 4 anyway. Basically I think that is less consequential than force feeding Bob minutes simply because "he's a 5".

Basically seven players, the starting 5 as well as King and Kunc, should get 90-95 percent of our minutes. The rest go to Watson and Ward/BRE in that order. In some situations foul trouble or injury could skew those percentages. But I think you get the general idea.

I think we go deeper than 7 for a reason. Ever watch UNLV or 40 minute's of hell back in their hay day. How many player's did they use. While we aren't identical to the house type of team, we do use up a lot of energy. Takes more depth and more player's, helps keep player's fresh.

Do you watch the practice's. Maybe the coaches see something you don't or can't.

 

[ZRF]

Really?





You absolutely are stating, emphatically, that you know more than the coaches when it comes to Rob's minutes.

Again, reading is fundamental.

Several 'knowledgeable' posters commented (to the effect) if I "knew so much about the team then why don't I coach it". I responded in saying I don't know more than the coaches and don't have the capabilities to coach the team. With that said I feel confident, as there is overwhelming supporting data, that they are flat out ******* up by playing Jones 15-20 minutes.

If you are going to attack the statement that's totally cool, but at least take the comment in the context with which it was given. Your statement not only fails to do that, but it fails to refute the point of the post.

Several posters have commented on Jones' usefulness, and many have taken offense to my comments. Instead of crying about it, why not offer more than anecdotal BS to support that claim?

And yes, that IS a rhetorical question.

 

[BCClone]

With Kunc back he and or Watson can play some 4. When we roll a starting 5 of Osun, Holmes, Grill, Gabe, and Lipsey we really don't have a true 4 anyway. Basically I think that is less consequential than force feeding Bob minutes simply because "he's a 5".

Basically seven players, the starting 5 as well as King and Kunc, should get 90-95 percent of our minutes. The rest go to Watson and Ward/BRE in that order. In some situations foul trouble or injury could skew those percentages. But I think you get the general idea.

Not fully because we’ve had foul trouble in nearly every game. That forces king and watson into more time just to cover that. I see Jaz able to take a few of those minutes but very seldom do we only have 1 person in foul trouble.

 

[Pharmacy99]

He shoots 42% FG.

Caleb Grill shot 30% yesterday. Wonder when that thread's going to get revved up.

46% this year and 50% last year, not good but not terrible either

 

[madguy30]

Tre and bob play together many times, who takes Kings spot when king takes Bob’s then.

They'll say Kunc who had 4 fouls in 11 minutes yesterday and was out for what, 5 weeks?

Tre averages about 3 fouls for his average minutes and imo is best from the 4 to be a bit more fluid in movement.

 

[ZRF]

I think we go deeper than 7 for a reason. Ever watch UNLV or 40 minute's of hell back in their hay day. How many player's did they use. While we aren't identical to the house type of team, we do use up a lot of energy. Takes more depth and more player's, helps keep player's fresh.

Do you watch the practice's. Maybe the coaches see something you don't or can't.

You are seriously comparing us to UNLV teams that ran the floor with abandon and routinely scored 100 + points a game?

We mitigate some of our half court intensity by reducing the amount of transition opportunities. While defensively we play harder than most, I don't know if the totality of expended effort surpasses that of, say....TCU (a team that races up and down the court).

There are 200 minutes of available basketball. Guys like Gabe, Grill, Lipsey, and Holmes routinely log over 30 minutes a game, so say 130-135 mins between them for most games. That's 65 minutes split amongst Osun (20 to 25 though I wish it were 30), King and Kunc. You don't think that's realistic or doable? It absolutely is.

 

[madguy30]

Here’s where I’ve landed with Rob using the transitive property.

TJ would not play someone who is not doing what they are coached to do. TJ continued to play Rob. As such, Rob must be doing what he is being coached to do.

Kid gives effort and TJ appears happy with how he’s contributing and that should really be enough for us.

The whole 'on the verge of a 2nd NCAA tourney in a row in year two of TJ ball' thing not being enough for a few has really been fun to watch unfold.

 

[BCClone]

You are seriously comparing us to UNLV teams that ran the floor with abandon and routinely scored 100 + points a game?

We mitigate some of our half court intensity by reducing the amount of transition opportunities. While defensively we play harder than most, I don't know if the totality of expended effort surpasses that of, say....TCU (a team that races up and down the court).

There are 200 minutes of available basketball. Guys like Gabe, Grill, Lipsey, and Holmes routinely log over 30 minutes a game, so say 130-135 mins between them for most games. That's 65 minutes split amongst Osun (20 to 25 though I wish it were 30), King and Kunc. You don't think that's realistic or doable? It absolutely is.

It is more physically demanding to play defense than offense. UNLV did a lot of 2 on 1's and cherry picking those years so they would rest on defense and then just send one early and whip it down.

 

[ZRF]

Not fully because we’ve had foul trouble in nearly every game. That forces king and watson into more time just to cover that. I see Jaz able to take a few of those minutes but very seldom do we only have 1 person in foul trouble.

King can play as much as 30 minutes if need be. Not only is he capable but he can be productive in doing so.

I don't dispute fouls are a constant problem with this team. When it necessitates you play guys like Ward and Bob when you NEED to play them. But there have been plenty of games where fouls were fairly dispersed and we can largely play the aforementioned 7 the majority of the minutes. When that can't work, shift the minutes accordingly.

Basically the point is you plan on playing the primary 7 guys while making adjustments based on fouls/injuries. Currently we are bringing Bob in when it's completely unecessary. That's what needs to change.

It's always a bad idea to give an unproductive player productive players minutes. Always.

 

[isuclone89]

You are seriously comparing us to UNLV teams that ran the floor with abandon and routinely scored 100 + points a game?

We mitigate some of our half court intensity by reducing the amount of transition opportunities. While defensively we play harder than most, I don't know if the totality of expended effort surpasses that of, say....TCU (a team that races up and down the court).

There are 200 minutes of available basketball. Guys like Gabe, Grill, Lipsey, and Holmes routinely log over 30 minutes a game, so say 130-135 mins between them for most games. That's 65 minutes split amongst Osun (20 to 25 though I wish it were 30), King and Kunc. You don't think that's realistic or doable? It absolutely is.

Energy expended it's just racing up and down the court. I wrestled and can tell you you learn how to save on energy. Our offense is a lot of motion, energy. Our defense is often man to man, again energy. We get back on defense quick, again energy. I kind of see a trend. You're going to use player's, unless they're in great physical condition. How often is the opposing team gassed against us?

And now you will be the second person I ignore. You basically think you're correct, and won't listen to anyone, and I doubt you ever admit when you're wrong or if there are other options out there.

Oh I'm not saying I'm correct, I am a wrestler at heart, a different sport entirely.

 

[Statefan10]

They'll say Kunc who had 4 fouls in 11 minutes yesterday and was out for what, 5 weeks?

Tre averages about 3 fouls for his average minutes and imo is best from the 4 to be a bit more fluid in movement.

Tre playing the 4 creates a matchup nightmare for most other 4’s in the conference. He can’t bully people at the 5 position.

Bob has struggled a bunch in conference play but there’s absolutely zero reason why this conversation is happening right now outside of people just wanting to have a reason to complain. He was solid yesterday and the lineup of King/Jones in the front court made us very physical that Kansas couldn’t match.

Bob isn’t the reason we’ve lost any of these games this year but he’s an easy scape goat.

 

[Clonefan420]

He shoots 42% FG.

Caleb Grill shot 30% yesterday. Wonder when that thread's going to get revved up.

36% in big 12 play

 

[NoCreativity]

It's about the only thing people can find to ***** about?

I guess, I don't know, just weird timing since thats the most dominate game we've had in years against KU and Jones had a decent game yesterday.