Rumor going around in StL
- Thread starter NEICyFan
- Start date
gee. 35th in the NCAA tourney
No-All americans. first time since 1962. That is FIFTY YEARS of all-americans until this season
yea, let's give him an extension
You've referenced my post, so I'll play. I want to be clear: I'm not criticizing those who are pleading for patience. What irks me is that some of the insiders/gurus seem baffled by the negative backlash following Iowa State's performance at the NCAAs over the past couple of years. Some even seem to take it personally.
The simple fact is that this is how the fringe fans should be EXPECTED to react when a once-proud program reaches the depths that is has in recent years. Rather than criticizing these fans, the insiders should be understand that this is the expected reaction. Further, it would be more alarming if we eventually reach a point when the fringe stops caring altogether. THAT would be a bad situation, as the fringe fans will eventually be needed to grow the fanbase, as I mentioned in my original post.
Equating this to football, KJ could be Kirk Feretz for Iowa or Bill Callahan for Nebraska. Initially, both seemingly underachieved given expectations. There was a multitude of reasons for the on-field performance, but the reaction from the fringe was understandably negative. Now KJ may turn it around like KF or fail like Callahan. But, either way, the insiders/gurus should not be shocked by negative backlash given the program's performance.
It certainly is. Which is why it has been discussed literally hundreds of times over the past two years. And the first time it came up it was discussed. And the second time. And the third time. And the fourth time. And the fifth time. And the sixth time. And the seventh time. And the eight time. And the ninth time. and the tenth time. And the eleventh time. And the twelfth time. And the thirteenth time. And so on.
When people jump in and act surprised about stuff that has been common knowledge for 2 years, and ignore posts explaining why, what do you expect the more "hardcore" fans to do? After how many threads, and how many in thread responses, is it acceptable to assume that the more broad ISU fanbase is paying attention? Would you prefer that every single wrestling thread came with a "This year isn't going to be great" disclaimer at the top? And does that disclaimer need to be appended to every single post, since people ignore everything other than the ********?
You're not getting it. The point is you're not going to rationalize the situation. This will be discussed a fourteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth time, and again and again until we start winning at the level that is expected.
Your post suggests that you think it's your job to educate the fanbase. I'm telling you you're wasting your time. When a team with 8 national titles in its history finishes 35th at the NCAAs in KJ's third year as head coach, you're going to get a lot of ******** and moaning. Accept it and save some keystrokes.
Based on your first paragraph, you would prefer that it not be discussed at all. That would be a symptom of an apathetic fanbase. Be thankful people give a rip, and hope that they still give a rip by the time the program starts winning again.
Actually, the point is that everyone who barely even knows ISU has a wrestling team comes in here on full blast without taking a few minutes to read the countless other threads on the same subject. If they did, they would see their questions and concerns had already been answered.
This is where the mentality between the insiders/gurus differs from the fringe. You feel concerns are answered by rationalizing all of the reasons that ISU is performing so poorly. The fringe sees a 35th place finish at NCAAs last week and doesn't believe a damn thing has been answered.
Neither side is right or wrong at this point. The final chapter won't be written until KJ either turns this thing around or underachieves to a degree that demands his firing.
Let me preface this as saying i am a fringer....and damn proud of it
baffled:But i do ask the question - to you, at what point is the matter answered? 35th at nationals....seriously....i would definitely put that as a low point in ISU wrestling, maybe not the lowest, but, were getting closer....
No, I feel concerns are answered by actually answering them. What happens is the same questions are asked dozens of times by different people.
If I went over to the football forum and asked every week why so-and-so is awful, don't you think people would get tired of it?
You are using different meanings of the word "Answered" to fit your argument. Nobody is saying that their aren't problems, or that there isn't stuff that needs to be fixed. And nobody is shy about discussing actual problems.
For example. Why didn't we have any AAs this year? The answer is Andrew Sorenson sprained his ankle in his second match and wasn't able to compete at anywhere near the level he had been wrestling at for the next few matches. He still gutted out a win to get to the semis but couldn't do more than that on one leg. There is your answer. People assuming we didn't have an AA due to lack of talent or that it was purely on the coaches are making an incorrect assumption. That isn't rationalization, its just facts.
Anybody who follows the program could tell you that there are two big issues right now. The first is all the injuries. It is clear we need a new S&C coach, or at the very least a new S&C program. The second is that the lightweights aren't making the transition to college wrestling as well as they should. It is clear we need a new lightweight coach and/or lightweight CWC athletes. However, at this point the only way to actually talk about those issues is through messages, because every thread is crapped up with wailing. It isn't the hardcore fans that don't want to talk about what needs fixing, it is the people who jump in with a full head of steam calling for everyone's head and not even pretending to pay any attention to the program.
Jackson has made poor coaching hires before, how do we know he isn't going to make another bad hire and put us back even farther. I understand completely with what you are saying. Sometimes the answer isn't to fire the head coach, but sometimes that is the only answer. How do we know that isn't the only answer to fix all the problems in the wrestling program.
I'm not one to call for a HC to be fired, I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially when the coach seems honest and cares for the athletics. Still I see a lot of blind defending and accusing from the two sides. To me, the definition of poor coaching is having talent and not doing anything with it which from your post sounds like that is exactly what is going on. How are you going to convince people that Jackson himself is a good coach, it is just all the coaches around him?
AMEN!!!!!! Everyone has a right to post their opinions. Many are so passionate about this topic and want the team to turn around and win titles. Their are verying opinions obviously, but hopefully people can discuss this topic without losing their minds.
I for one think 3 years of Jacksons way is enough and it's time to bring in new talent who can relate to the wrestlers and be more current with the collegiate style of wrestling. IMO he doesn't teach the wrestlers much which is why some of the wrestlers are not being developed as they could be. Very frustrating.
We don't. And it is very possible that whoever he brings on board won't help to fix things. But we haven't even gotten to talking about that because of the meltdown consuming the subforum. Just because people aren't in meltdown doesn't mean they think Jackson is perfect, just that they are keeping an eye on the larger picture and acknowledging what the team has to overcome to succeed.
Great post...
The problem is that you have hawk fans like nei, and cheese, and the ones on here that are trying to stir the pot. The random, non wrestling followers see someone on here bashing away, and join right in.
There are real problems with the program right now, and noone that I have read has given KJ a free pass, hell I don't think that he would want one even if they gave it to him. As of right now, it is his responsibility to fix what is wrong.
I think the recruiting has improved the last two years. That is the first step, you have to get the best kids you can. Recruiting in state is difficult, much more than out East. We are fighting the hawks, and now you have Schwab doing well with instate kids at UNI. But we are actually getting kids now, that have competed at a high level.
The next step is development. Can this staff do this? That is what will make or break this staff. Getting to the top ten next year, with multiple AA's would be a step in the right direction. Let's hope that this can happen.
Iowa State fans always tend to personalize the coach, often to the extremes. They did it with the mediocrity that was mccarney, and now they are doing the opposite with KJ
