Possible UIHC layoffs

[MuskieCy]

The reliance of the US healthcare system on elective procedures is a function of "my insurance will pay for it" and "if I don't produce more more revenue, I won't get that sweet, sweet bonus".

Healthcare, "we need more revenue to build more infrastructure!" Insurance, "gotta increase rates, we make $$$ no matter what". You and me, "my health insurance keeps getting more expensive, and I NEVER FILE A CLAIM?!?!?!?!"

 

[Doc]

It documents the long history of financial mismanagement.

It's not necessarily fiscal mismanagement to go to court, although I did see the court ruled in the contractor's favor. Contractors try to **** over people pretty frequently...

 

[Sigmapolis]

You might want to bring some facts to your argument before you start shoving around your emotions and beliefs--those are best left to Theologians and Philosophers. Here are the facts (yup, those pesky things):

Fact #1: In a 2019 Study of Western Developed Peer Countries done by The Commonwealth Fund, the US is #1 in spending on healthcare as a % of GDP ("USA! USA! USA!), BUT last in outcomes. This just one of many studies that have said basically the same thing for years. But heck, why fix something that's so affordable and works so well!
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...20/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019

Fact #2: Just Google "Heathcare workers laid off." Pick any article you want from any source--they all will say the same thing: Hospitals have taken a huge financial hit because elective procedures/surgeries have been basically prohibited for the last 6-8 weeks. Only now are they being allowed in most states.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

There's a ton of hard data that disagrees with your 3/3 theory and the notion that improving one invariably makes at least one of the others worse. The link is exhibit A.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...20/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019

Despite conspiracy theories, access/affordability/and high quality are not mutually exclusive. I can speak personally about the healthcare system in Germany--it runs circles around ours on the three criteria you mentioned.

Oh no, watch out, we got a BA here.

All kidding aside, I appreciate your optimism, but plenty of brave young knight wonks have rode off into the forest and ended up burnt to a crisp by this particular dragon. Seriously addressing this veers way too far into the political direction for the general boards, however, so I’m sure they would welcome you into the Cave and/or feel free to PM me if you want to have more of a discussion about it. Thank you.

You should just be careful when you launch into a “COVID proves the U.S. sucks” when our death rates are middle-of-the-road for the developed nations. Our per capital death rate looks pretty bad compared to Germany, but we are pretty far ahead of Britain, France, Italy, and Spain. The rate for NYC looks pretty awful compared to basically anybody, but the rate for Ohio and a lot of other interior states looks pretty good compared to that same competition.

The point — you might want to cool your jets about bringing your ideological priors into a situation unlike any we have faced in decades, if not since the Spanish Flu a century ago. You got called on making a sweeping statement when the data regarding COVID in particular did not match it, and now you are trying to withdraw from your motte into your bailey by bringing in a bunch of unrelated information.

What you should have concluded is COVID has had impacts by nation and regions of the U.S. that are not very much correlated with the type of healthcare system or insurance and payment systems surrounding them. In this instance, it is probably better to conclude that other factors (e.g., density, the quickness and the completeness of lockdowns, international travel to and from China, etc.) are probably the ones that matter the most. But, hey, that does not much conform to your ideological priors, so recognizing that would not be fun, so hence your braggadocio here.

Do not brag about your supposed weapons in what should be a polite discussion, cowboy.

I mostly agree with your general points, but this is an awful application of them. Sorry.

 

[Showtimeljs]

Ah yes, the old CHEAP, QUICK, GOOD. Choose any two.
You can get cheap and quick but it won't be good.
You can get quick and good, but it won't be cheap.
You can get cheap and good, but it won't be quick.

I thought this was the lead up to a dirty joke....just some good advice. Meh.

 

[BCClone]

I thought this was the lead up to a dirty joke....just some good advice. Meh.

Kinda fits along that narrative also, doesn't it?

 

[volclone]

Oh no, watch out, we got a BA here.

All kidding aside, I appreciate your optimism, but plenty of brave young knight wonks have rode off into the forest and ended up burnt to a crisp by this particular dragon. Seriously addressing this veers way too far into the political direction for the general boards, however, so I’m sure they would welcome you into the Cave and/or feel free to PM me if you want to have more of a discussion about it. Thank you.

You should just be careful when you launch into a “COVID proves the U.S. sucks” when our death rates are middle-of-the-road for the developed nations. Our per capital death rate looks pretty bad compared to Germany, but we are pretty far ahead of Britain, France, Italy, and Spain. The rate for NYC looks pretty awful compared to basically anybody, but the rate for Ohio and a lot of other interior states looks pretty good compared to that same competition.

The point — you might want to cool your jets about bringing your ideological priors into a situation unlike any we have faced in decades, if not since the Spanish Flu a century ago. You got called on making a sweeping statement when the data regarding COVID in particular did not match it, and now you are trying to withdraw from your motte into your bailey by bringing in a bunch of unrelated information.

What you should have concluded is COVID has had impacts by nation and regions of the U.S. that are not very much correlated with the type of healthcare system or insurance and payment systems surrounding them. In this instance, it is probably better to conclude that other factors (e.g., density, the quickness and the completeness of lockdowns, international travel to and from China, etc.) are probably the ones that matter the most. But, hey, that does not much conform to your ideological priors, so recognizing that would not be fun, so hence your braggadocio here.

Do not brag about your supposed weapons in what should be a polite discussion, cowboy.

I mostly agree with your general points, but this is an awful application of them. Sorry.

Wow--I haven't been this psycho-analyzed since.....NEVER. If you don't want to acknowledge the train-wreck that is healthcare for the average citizen, fine. I have to wonder what your vested interest may be in this discussion.

My fact-based thoughts regarding the need to fix healthcare in the US pre-date COVID...and will likely be with me the rest of my life because as a country we have shown little interest in altering the status quo. So we will continue to pay, pay, pay. Critically ill, elderly patients will see their bank accounts emptied for basic care Medicare can't or won't pay for...folks without insurance will continue to use the Emergency Room as their clinic--and when they can't pay for medical services, those costs will be "socialized" across those who have insurance...etc., etc. And our outcomes will continue to lag the rest of the western developed world.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Wow--I haven't been this psycho-analyzed since.....NEVER.

Bragging about how you brought a "gun" and I brought a "knife" is about as Internet Tough Guy as I can imagine. You might want to chill on such bullying.

If you don't want to acknowledge the train-wreck that is healthcare for the average citizen, fine. I have to wonder what your vested interest may be in this discussion.

Accusing somebody of being a shill for a special interest on a free board dedicated to the college sports program of a single land-grant university in Iowa is a pretty pretentious and droll look. You probably need to rethink that one. When the only reason you can imagine that somebody might possibly disagree with you is they are a "sell out" to special interests, then you are way through the looking glass. Time to step back out.

My fact-based thoughts regarding the need to fix healthcare in the US pre-date COVID...

Thank you for admitting my point. You do not want to address the facts on the ground with COVID; you just want to believe what you always believed in any situation based on your priors. When you are a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.

Despite your bluster to try and disguise your mistake, the issue is not your facts. The issue is their relevance to your initial point and this entire discussion.

You said that COVID somehow yet again proved the rottenness of the U.S. system, but when you look at the numbers, nothing suggests that is the case. As I mentioned previously, the U.S. death rate from COVID is middle-of-the-road for peer developed nations. Germany is certainly kicking our butt, but we are pretty far ahead of nations such as Italy and Spain in our death rates. Besides the international comparisons, there are some extremely large swings between different states and regions of the U.S., such as NY and Iowa.

If the healthcare system and the insurance/payment system wrapped around it is what matters with COVID, then how come these facts are what they are?

New York = population of 19.45 million; 22,843 deaths; 1,174 dead per million
Iowa = population 3.16 million; 375 deaths; 119 dead per million

Could you potentially illuminate for me what is so stunningly different about the healthcare systems of New York and Iowa as to cause these numbers? Alternatively, you should admit the likely truth that other factors, such as density, international flight access, and mass transit usage are probably the more important factors here.

and will likely be with me the rest of my life because as a country we have shown little interest in altering the status quo.

Well, we do agree about this point.

So we will continue to pay, pay, pay. Critically ill, elderly patients will see their bank accounts emptied for basic care Medicare can't or won't pay for...folks without insurance will continue to use the Emergency Room as their clinic--and when they can't pay for medical services, those costs will be "socialized" across those who have insurance...etc., etc. And our outcomes will continue to lag the rest of the western developed world.

Poetic but utterly irrelevant to the initial discussion.

You said COVID provided yet more evidence the U.S. sucks... Yep, it sure has problems, but I pointed out that, in this instance, the U.S. system is doing okay. So you fell back into your keep of factual but irrelevant data while ignoring your initial point.

Of course, when your ideological imperative is to hate the U.S. system so much that you cannot hear anything good about it... even when it is as faint of praise that it is performing averagely compared to other countries with COVID (not even well, only average)... then you have to start launch into sophomoric ad hominem shots, bluster, tough guy rhetoric, and an attempt to overwhelm and distract with irrelevant data.

 

[usedcarguy]

Oh no, watch out, we got a BA here.

All kidding aside, I appreciate your optimism, but plenty of brave young knight wonks have rode off into the forest and ended up burnt to a crisp by this particular dragon. Seriously addressing this veers way too far into the political direction for the general boards, however, so I’m sure they would welcome you into the Cave and/or feel free to PM me if you want to have more of a discussion about it. Thank you.

You should just be careful when you launch into a “COVID proves the U.S. sucks” when our death rates are middle-of-the-road for the developed nations. Our per capital death rate looks pretty bad compared to Germany, but we are pretty far ahead of Britain, France, Italy, and Spain. The rate for NYC looks pretty awful compared to basically anybody, but the rate for Ohio and a lot of other interior states looks pretty good compared to that same competition.

The point — you might want to cool your jets about bringing your ideological priors into a situation unlike any we have faced in decades, if not since the Spanish Flu a century ago. You got called on making a sweeping statement when the data regarding COVID in particular did not match it, and now you are trying to withdraw from your motte into your bailey by bringing in a bunch of unrelated information.

What you should have concluded is COVID has had impacts by nation and regions of the U.S. that are not very much correlated with the type of healthcare system or insurance and payment systems surrounding them. In this instance, it is probably better to conclude that other factors (e.g., density, the quickness and the completeness of lockdowns, international travel to and from China, etc.) are probably the ones that matter the most. But, hey, that does not much conform to your ideological priors, so recognizing that would not be fun, so hence your braggadocio here.

Do not brag about your supposed weapons in what should be a polite discussion, cowboy.

I mostly agree with your general points, but this is an awful application of them. Sorry.

I would add to what you said that at least in the US, (shouldn't be any different elsewhere in rest of the world) jurisdictions that went out of their way to protect at risk groups (i.e. keeping Covid patients out of nursing homes) performed far superior to those who did not. A comparison of Florida who did (and Iowa) and NY,and others who did not shows a stark difference. NY skews the entire nation's statistics.

Is what happened in NY or those other states an indictment on our healthcare system? Of course not. But that won't stop people from using data without context to advance their own preconceived notions.

 

[ArgentCy]

Oh no, watch out, we got a BA here.

All kidding aside, I appreciate your optimism, but plenty of brave young knight wonks have rode off into the forest and ended up burnt to a crisp by this particular dragon. Seriously addressing this veers way too far into the political direction for the general boards, however, so I’m sure they would welcome you into the Cave and/or feel free to PM me if you want to have more of a discussion about it. Thank you.

You should just be careful when you launch into a “COVID proves the U.S. sucks” when our death rates are middle-of-the-road for the developed nations. Our per capital death rate looks pretty bad compared to Germany, but we are pretty far ahead of Britain, France, Italy, and Spain. The rate for NYC looks pretty awful compared to basically anybody, but the rate for Ohio and a lot of other interior states looks pretty good compared to that same competition.

The point — you might want to cool your jets about bringing your ideological priors into a situation unlike any we have faced in decades, if not since the Spanish Flu a century ago. You got called on making a sweeping statement when the data regarding COVID in particular did not match it, and now you are trying to withdraw from your motte into your bailey by bringing in a bunch of unrelated information.

What you should have concluded is COVID has had impacts by nation and regions of the U.S. that are not very much correlated with the type of healthcare system or insurance and payment systems surrounding them. In this instance, it is probably better to conclude that other factors (e.g., density, the quickness and the completeness of lockdowns, international travel to and from China, etc.) are probably the ones that matter the most. But, hey, that does not much conform to your ideological priors, so recognizing that would not be fun, so hence your braggadocio here.

Do not brag about your supposed weapons in what should be a polite discussion, cowboy.

I mostly agree with your general points, but this is an awful application of them. Sorry.

I sense a very long thread incoming....

 

[Pat]

UIHC has been able to hold off for this long? Mayo announced cuts, furloughs, etc. 6 weeks ago. Basically everyone salaried took at minimum a 7% haircut and higher salaried people saw 15%. Mayo was tapping their reserves for a cool billion as well.

Construction projects can be tough to postpone. A lot of then come with "spend it or lose it" funding provisions. Certainly there's maintenance that can be deferred but bigger projects it can be tough once everything is lined up.

There seems to be a pretty significant difference in reserves/cash flow in provider-owned vs. research institutions. It’s definitely easier to cut salaries (and release consultants) than to pause large capital projects.

 

[4theCYcle]

Bragging about how you brought a "gun" and I brought a "knife" is about as Internet Tough Guy as I can imagine. You might want to chill on such bullying.



Accusing somebody of being a shill for a special interest on a free board dedicated to the college sports program of a single land-grant university in Iowa is a pretty pretentious and droll look. You probably need to rethink that one. When the only reason you can imagine that somebody might possibly disagree with you is they are a "sell out" to special interests, then you are way through the looking glass. Time to step back out.



Thank you for admitting my point. You do not want to address the facts on the ground with COVID; you just want to believe what you always believed in any situation based on your priors. When you are a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.

Despite your bluster to try and disguise your mistake, the issue is not your facts. The issue is their relevance to your initial point and this entire discussion.

You said that COVID somehow yet again proved the rottenness of the U.S. system, but when you look at the numbers, nothing suggests that is the case. As I mentioned previously, the U.S. death rate from COVID is middle-of-the-road for peer developed nations. Germany is certainly kicking our butt, but we are pretty far ahead of nations such as Italy and Spain in our death rates. Besides the international comparisons, there are some extremely large swings between different states and regions of the U.S., such as NY and Iowa.

If the healthcare system and the insurance/payment system wrapped around it is what matters with COVID, then how come these facts are what they are?

New York = population of 19.45 million; 22,843 deaths; 1,174 dead per million
Iowa = population 3.16 million; 375 deaths; 119 dead per million

Could you potentially illuminate for me what is so stunningly different about the healthcare systems of New York and Iowa as to cause these numbers? Alternatively, you should admit the likely truth that other factors, such as density, international flight access, and mass transit usage are probably the more important factors here.



Well, we do agree about this point.



Poetic but utterly irrelevant to the initial discussion.

You said COVID provided yet more evidence the U.S. sucks... Yep, it sure has problems, but I pointed out that, in this instance, the U.S. system is doing okay. So you fell back into your keep of factual but irrelevant data while ignoring your initial point.

Of course, when your ideological imperative is to hate the U.S. system so much that you cannot hear anything good about it... even when it is as faint of praise that it is performing averagely compared to other countries with COVID (not even well, only average)... then you have to start launch into sophomoric ad hominem shots, bluster, tough guy rhetoric, and an attempt to overwhelm and distract with irrelevant data.

You also forgot to include "New York let the positive cases go back to the nursing homes which greatly increased numbers in that state." Which maybe, date wise suggests we/you didn't know that back in May yet. I don't know.

 

[3GenClone]

Article today via KCCI

IOWA CITY, Iowa —

University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics is anticipating losing $100 million from the coronavirus pandemic.

The hospitals are now making cuts. Workers making $50,000 or more a year will have to take two weeks off unpaid or give up 100 hours of paid vacation time.

Those making less will take a week off or give up 50 hours.

University of Iowa Hospitals CEO Suresh Gunasekaran said the hospital will be able to avoid layoffs with this plan.

"I accept all the criticism because I know that any cut at this time could be a difficult cut for staff and family. So, we don't take any of this lightly," he said.

Next month, hospital employees who make $50,000 or less will earn a 2% raise.
​

Thinking about you @Daserop and others at UIHC that do so much for our communities and our state.

 

[Daserop]

Perhaps my wife misinterpreted what she heard, but I asked her, "Why do you have to take unpaid leave for two weeks? Why aren't they doing furloughs? At least you get some income them." Her response was that workers didn't want to give up their benefits, so they have to take the leave unpaid.

 

[cycloner29]

I know people at Mary Greeley that were given furlough within a month of Covid. I get it with Covid and the cases they had in Johnson County, but wouldn't you think that UIHCC would have thought about this sooner than later?

I feel bad for everyone that has been put in this situation. "Thank you so much for getting us through the pandemic you folks are the best! Now take two weeks off. Did I mention the two weeks is unpaid?"

 

[Cig 'em]

I know people at Mary Greeley that were given furlough within a month of Covid. I get it with Covid and the cases they had in Johnson County, but wouldn't you think that UIHCC would have thought about this sooner than later?

I feel bad for everyone that has been put in this situation. "Thank you so much for getting us through the pandemic you folks are the best! Now take two weeks off. Did I mention the two weeks is unpaid?"

Can they not get unemployment?

 

[ScottyP]

Can they not get unemployment?

I think they are able to. They should also be able to keep their benefits because it is a furlough.

 

[WhoISthis]

Article today via KCCI

IOWA CITY, Iowa —

University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics is anticipating losing $100 million from the coronavirus pandemic.

The hospitals are now making cuts. Workers making $50,000 or more a year will have to take two weeks off unpaid or give up 100 hours of paid vacation time.

Those making less will take a week off or give up 50 hours.

University of Iowa Hospitals CEO Suresh Gunasekaran said the hospital will be able to avoid layoffs with this plan.

"I accept all the criticism because I know that any cut at this time could be a difficult cut for staff and family. So, we don't take any of this lightly," he said.

Next month, hospital employees who make $50,000 or less will earn a 2% raise.
​

Thinking about you @Daserop and others at UIHC that do so much for our communities and our state.

I’m surprised they didn’t have more tiers than just 50k as a break point.

 

[Daserop]

I’m surprised they didn’t have more tiers than just 50k as a break point.

Perhaps the article just didn't mention it, but there should be more tiers. My wife is above that 50,000 threshold and they told her she would get a raise. They also told her that "upper management" will take a 10% pay cut for 3 months & no pay raise this year.

I don't know why the article didn't mention that

 

[IcSyU]

Mayo released today they're ahead of schedule and will be restoring pay to employees and bringing them back from furlough. Originally they were told Labor Day.