***Official 2023 Chicago Cubs Thread***

[CYdTracked]

I'm tired of getting "decent prospects". This front office needs to put up or shut up. Resign Bellinger and Stroman then build from there.

Will have to sign them in the offseason as both have more to gain by playing out this season whether that is with the Cubs or a contender they get traded. If you want the best return on investment you trade them at the deadline and make your best offer in free agency.

 

[Cyforce]

I would hope the Cubs go after a bigger power bat than Candelario in the off-season to fill in at 1B/DH.

My hope is Morel is the Cubs everyday 3B once Swanson comes back to see if he can be a solid defensive 3B in 2024.

Wisdom is a hard case because I think he could be a utility guy at 1B, 3B and LF. But he may be the kind of player who struggles at the plate playing a couple games a week. But his power would be a nice bat off the bench.

If they can get better then Candelario great but he'd be a pretty good fit. Switch hitter w/ pop that can play both corners well without a big price tag. Personally I'd rather they spend big on another starter. Add a third ace and hope Taillon figures it out then use the young guys as 5th starters. (Wesneski, Brown, etc.)

 

[Cyforce]

Will have to sign them in the offseason as both have more to gain by playing out this season whether that is with the Cubs or a contender they get traded. If you want the best return on investment you trade them at the deadline and make your best offer in free agency.

Unless we get a great return I'd hang onto Sto and Bellie. Both want to stay. If Stroman leaves you get a good draft pick. To get a good return for Bellinger you likely have to cover the buyout Keeping them adds value to bringing them back showing the want to build rather then constantly going full rebuild. We're close and keeping and adding a strong base strengthens the process.

 

[CYdTracked]

If they can get better then Candelario great but he'd be a pretty good fit. Switch hitter w/ pop that can play both corners well without a big price tag. Personally I'd rather they spend big on another starter. Add a third ace and hope Taillon figures it out then use the young guys as 5th starters. (Wesneski, Brown, etc.)

I think Candelario is just flash in the pan right now. Having a career year at the right time but not a lot of upside at his age and career numbers. Would not trade anything of significance for him nor commit long term dollars in free agency either.

 

[Cyforce]

I think Candelario is just flash in the pan right now. Having a career year at the right time but not a lot of upside at his age and career numbers. Would not trade anything of significance for him nor commit long term dollars in free agency either.

He's not going to have a big price tag. That's one of the reasons he fits. Spend for Bellinger and pitching.

 

[CYdTracked]

Unless we get a great return I'd hang onto Sto and Bellie. Both want to stay. If Stroman leaves you get a good draft pick. To get a good return for Bellinger you likely have to cover the buyout Keeping them adds value to bringing them back showing the want to build rather then constantly going full rebuild. We're close and keeping and adding a strong base strengthens the process.

Stro and Belli will be sought after if the Cubs decide to sell. This is not a Contreras situation where offers will be weak because teams have concerns of the fit. Should be able to nab a top 10 prospect in a system for either if they hold out for the right deal. Stroman is a top 2 pitcher in most rotations and Bellinger is showing he is healthy and hot at the right time as a solid OF option. The Cubs should have plenty of offers to consider if they make both available.

 

[isucy86]

If they can get better then Candelario great but he'd be a pretty good fit. Switch hitter w/ pop that can play both corners well without a big price tag. Personally I'd rather they spend big on another starter. Add a third ace and hope Taillon figures it out then use the young guys as 5th starters. (Wesneski, Brown, etc.)

Being a switch hitter is a plus for Candelario, but I feel like he's at most a 20 HR guy and more likely around 15 HR.

I might take a run at guys like Josh Bell, Rhys Hoskins or Conforto. Or a true DH in former Cub Soler.

It would be ideal if Mervis can be everyday guy at 1B or DH.

 

[isucy86]

Stro and Belli will be sought after if the Cubs decide to sell. This is not a Contreras situation where offers will be weak because teams have concerns of the fit. Should be able to nab a top 10 prospect in a system for either if they hold out for the right deal. Stroman is a top 2 pitcher in most rotations and Bellinger is showing he is healthy and hot at the right time as a solid OF option. The Cubs should have plenty of offers to consider if they make both available.

If the Cubs feel these guys are playing at their peak and will regress, I agree on being sellers of those guys.

But I feel Bellinger & Stroman would be solid over the next 4-5 years based on their 2023 play, so try to keep.

It's fools gold to think the Cubs are a deep playoff team in 2024-2026 with Swanson, Horner, Morel and prospects. At some point the Cubs have to stop being sellers and be builders.

At this year's deadline, I would look to move solid players and get solid players or prospects in return. If I was Hoyer, I would try to move guys like: Mancini, Suzuki, Happ, Madrigal, Fulmer, Leiter.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Stro had a hell of a presser after the game

Essentially said he’s not sure why he and Belly are both wanting to stay with the Cubs and isn’t sure why the organization would want to replace production they’re definitely getting for production they hope to get years from now

 

[Cyforce]

Stro had a hell of a presser after the game

Essentially said he’s not sure why he and Belly are both wanting to stay with the Cubs and isn’t sure why the organization would want to replace production they’re definitely getting for production they hope to get years from now

Stro basically said even if I leave for 2 months I want to come back.

When you look at the pieces already in place.

Gomes short and Amaya long term behind the plate. Swanson and Hoerner up the middle. Morel at the plate. Happ in the outfield. Steele an all star. Then all the young talent coming. The Cubs just have to figure out the best way to have these guys next season.

Personally I think you go for it now. Don't mortgage the future but add a productive corner infielder and a couple arms, likely rentals. Even if you come up short you showed your willingness to take this team to the next level. That means something to free agents.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Stro basically said even if I leave for 2 months I want to come back.

When you look at the pieces already in place.

Gomes short and Amaya long term behind the plate. Swanson and Hoerner up the middle. Morel at the plate. Happ in the outfield. Steele an all star. Then all the young talent coming. The Cubs just have to figure out the best way to have these guys next season.

Personally I think you go for it now. Don't mortgage the future but add a productive corner infielder and a couple arms, likely rentals. Even if you come up short you showed your willingness to take this team to the next level. That means something to free agents.

I think the Cardinals said it best - this deadline shouldn’t be buy or sell, it should be focused on getting the pieces to compete in 2024

 

[TClone99]

Stro had a hell of a presser after the game

Essentially said he’s not sure why he and Belly are both wanting to stay with the Cubs and isn’t sure why the organization would want to replace production they’re definitely getting for production they hope to get years from now

Because once they’re out of contention that present production is wasted. Bellinger is on a one year deal and Stro can (and will) opt out after the season. I really hope they win enough so that they keep them. There are already going to be tough 40 man decisions coming up so you’ll need to get the right prospect at the right position in a trade.

 

[NoCreativity]

I think Candelario is just flash in the pan right now.

Watched that guy for years in Des Moines. I can't even believe the front office is entertaining the thought of going back to him as the answer at 3rd right now.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Stro basically said even if I leave for 2 months I want to come back.

When you look at the pieces already in place.

Gomes short and Amaya long term behind the plate. Swanson and Hoerner up the middle. Morel at the plate. Happ in the outfield. Steele an all star. Then all the young talent coming. The Cubs just have to figure out the best way to have these guys next season.

Personally I think you go for it now. Don't mortgage the future but add a productive corner infielder and a couple arms, likely rentals. Even if you come up short you showed your willingness to take this team to the next level. That means something to free agents.

You've got to turn some of this prospect depth into MLB ready pieces before a bunch of them wash out as prospects do.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Watched that guy for years in Des Moines. I can't even believe the front office is entertaining the thought of going back to him as the answer at 3rd right now.

I think this depends on your stance as the front office.

If you're building for 2024, I agree, he isn't a part of our future.

If you're selling, I agree, he isn't a part of our future.

If you're buying for the next 2 months, I'd say he's worth it. You have a hole at 3B, he'd be a decent band aid.

 

[CYdTracked]

If the Cubs feel these guys are playing at their peak and will regress, I agree on being sellers of those guys.

But I feel Bellinger & Stroman would be solid over the next 4-5 years based on their 2023 play, so try to keep.

It's fools gold to think the Cubs are a deep playoff team in 2024-2026 with Swanson, Horner, Morel and prospects. At some point the Cubs have to stop being sellers and be builders.

At this year's deadline, I would look to move solid players and get solid players or prospects in return. If I was Hoyer, I would try to move guys like: Mancini, Suzuki, Happ, Madrigal, Fulmer, Leiter.

Problem is there won't be much of a market for these guys let alone get anything of value in return for them. You honestly think anyone wants to take on some underperforming guys and their contracts? Suzuki is signed through 2026 anywhere from $18-21 mill a year depending on the year. They just extended Happ this season (some here were advocating for them to do this too!) and he has similar salary hits through 2026 like Suzuki too. Madrigal keeps getting hurt and no timeline on when he'll be back right now either and when he's been healthy hasn't exactly been consistently productive. Mancini is basically a DH that isn't hitting this season and a defensive liability if you play him in the field. Fulmer and Leiter are basically cheap bullpen rentals and it wasn't long ago some were even calling for Fulmer to be DFA as bad as he was earlier this season. Fulmer had a good June and has reclaimed some of his value, Leiter has been pretty solid but he's trending the wrong way at the moment with 3 of his last 4 outings giving up 2 runs each time.

This isn't a video game where you can just trade off pieces you don't want anymore because you can/want to. None of those guys you mentioned will get anything of value for in return and you'd likely have to pay for part of Happ and Suzuki's salary too. Suzuki also has a full no trade clause he would have to waive too. We've been discussing the optics of how it looks to sell off, how about extending a guy like Happ then give up on him in the same season by trading him or investing in an international player in Suzuki and give up on him in just his 2nd season?

I want them to be builders too but that is more likely to happen in the offseason not at the deadline. Contenders will tend to overpay for guys at the deadline - the Cubs have been 1 of those teams before when they traded some of their best prospects for guys like Chapman and Quintana in the past. This current roster is not setup yet to make a big splash at the deadline and probably not even good enough that going with some cheap additions to really make a meaningful run. If Stro and Belli want to return next season and are OK with the idea they might get traded the Cubs likely best chance to keep them past this season will likely be having to bid against other teams in free agency for them because I doubt their agents (especially Boras) are going to want them to sign extensions now unless the Cubs just come with something too good to pass up which is not likely. Would you rather nab a top 10 prospect in someone's farm system for these guys and try to make a run at them in the offseason or take your chances, miss the playoff again this year and let them walk for a supplement pick after offering a QO? I'm in the mindset that the front office needs to go big in the offseason or move on and part of that may be needing to trade for someone that comes available in the offseason and having a few more prospects to deal from depth in the farm system is not a bad thing to have.

 

[isucy86]

Problem is there won't be much of a market for these guys let alone get anything of value in return for them. You honestly think anyone wants to take on some underperforming guys and their contracts? Suzuki is signed through 2026 anywhere from $18-21 mill a year depending on the year. They just extended Happ this season (some here were advocating for them to do this too!) and he has similar salary hits through 2026 like Suzuki too. Madrigal keeps getting hurt and no timeline on when he'll be back right now either and when he's been healthy hasn't exactly been consistently productive. Mancini is basically a DH that isn't hitting this season and a defensive liability if you play him in the field. Fulmer and Leiter are basically cheap bullpen rentals and it wasn't long ago some were even calling for Fulmer to be DFA as bad as he was earlier this season. Fulmer had a good June and has reclaimed some of his value, Leiter has been pretty solid but he's trending the wrong way at the moment with 3 of his last 4 outings giving up 2 runs each time.

This isn't a video game where you can just trade off pieces you don't want anymore because you can/want to. None of those guys you mentioned will get anything of value for in return and you'd likely have to pay for part of Happ and Suzuki's salary too. Suzuki also has a full no trade clause he would have to waive too. We've been discussing the optics of how it looks to sell off, how about extending a guy like Happ then give up on him in the same season by trading him or investing in an international player in Suzuki and give up on him in just his 2nd season?

I want them to be builders too but that is more likely to happen in the offseason not at the deadline. Contenders will tend to overpay for guys at the deadline - the Cubs have been 1 of those teams before when they traded some of their best prospects for guys like Chapman and Quintana in the past. This current roster is not setup yet to make a big splash at the deadline and probably not even good enough that going with some cheap additions to really make a meaningful run. If Stro and Belli want to return next season and are OK with the idea they might get traded the Cubs likely best chance to keep them past this season will likely be having to bid against other teams in free agency for them because I doubt their agents (especially Boras) are going to want them to sign extensions now unless the Cubs just come with something too good to pass up which is not likely. Would you rather nab a top 10 prospect in someone's farm system for these guys and try to make a run at them in the offseason or take your chances, miss the playoff again this year and let them walk for a supplement pick after offering a QO? I'm in the mindset that the front office needs to go big in the offseason or move on and part of that may be needing to trade for someone that comes available in the offseason and having a few more prospects to deal from depth in the farm system is not a bad thing to have.

Most teams buying at the trade deadline are looking to fill holes. It could be a missing piece in their lineup or injury. Sure the Cubs might have to pick up part of a player's salary.

Also, teams feel a change in clubhouse can help a player find themself. Joc Pederson is an example going to the Braves.

As far as guys like Leiter & Fulmer, playoff teams are always looking for a stronger bullpen. In the past the Cubs have traded guys like Chapin and Robertson.

I'm not saying the Cubs will get elite talent, but possibly find reclamation projects at positions of need or less than top tier minor league prospects.

If the Cubs are sellers of their core elite players at this trade deadline, I feel they are pushing their rebuild into the future.

 

[NoCreativity]

Suzuki and Happ are completely worthless at the plate right now. It's painful to watch. Happ let two perfect fastballs go right down the middle then swung at ball 4 a foot high.

 

[Clonefan32]

Problem is there won't be much of a market for these guys let alone get anything of value in return for them. You honestly think anyone wants to take on some underperforming guys and their contracts? Suzuki is signed through 2026 anywhere from $18-21 mill a year depending on the year. They just extended Happ this season (some here were advocating for them to do this too!) and he has similar salary hits through 2026 like Suzuki too. Madrigal keeps getting hurt and no timeline on when he'll be back right now either and when he's been healthy hasn't exactly been consistently productive. Mancini is basically a DH that isn't hitting this season and a defensive liability if you play him in the field. Fulmer and Leiter are basically cheap bullpen rentals and it wasn't long ago some were even calling for Fulmer to be DFA as bad as he was earlier this season. Fulmer had a good June and has reclaimed some of his value, Leiter has been pretty solid but he's trending the wrong way at the moment with 3 of his last 4 outings giving up 2 runs each time.

This isn't a video game where you can just trade off pieces you don't want anymore because you can/want to. None of those guys you mentioned will get anything of value for in return and you'd likely have to pay for part of Happ and Suzuki's salary too. Suzuki also has a full no trade clause he would have to waive too. We've been discussing the optics of how it looks to sell off, how about extending a guy like Happ then give up on him in the same season by trading him or investing in an international player in Suzuki and give up on him in just his 2nd season?

I want them to be builders too but that is more likely to happen in the offseason not at the deadline. Contenders will tend to overpay for guys at the deadline - the Cubs have been 1 of those teams before when they traded some of their best prospects for guys like Chapman and Quintana in the past. This current roster is not setup yet to make a big splash at the deadline and probably not even good enough that going with some cheap additions to really make a meaningful run. If Stro and Belli want to return next season and are OK with the idea they might get traded the Cubs likely best chance to keep them past this season will likely be having to bid against other teams in free agency for them because I doubt their agents (especially Boras) are going to want them to sign extensions now unless the Cubs just come with something too good to pass up which is not likely. Would you rather nab a top 10 prospect in someone's farm system for these guys and try to make a run at them in the offseason or take your chances, miss the playoff again this year and let them walk for a supplement pick after offering a QO? I'm in the mindset that the front office needs to go big in the offseason or move on and part of that may be needing to trade for someone that comes available in the offseason and having a few more prospects to deal from depth in the farm system is not a bad thing to have.

There's just no way they keep Belly and Stroman past the deadline. I'd have to imagine there is too much scar tissue from Rizzo/Bryant/Baez/Contreras there. While those all wound up being good decisions to not extend at what they were asking, in trying to get an extension done as long as they did they definitely did not get the return they could have had they shipped them off earlier. I think the FO has realized if a deal isn't imminent, you have to move them when the market is hot, not when other teams know you don't have any bargaining power.

 

[CYdTracked]

There's just no way they keep Belly and Stroman past the deadline. I'd have to imagine there is too much scar tissue from Rizzo/Bryant/Baez/Contreras there. While those all wound up being good decisions to not extend at what they were asking, in trying to get an extension done as long as they did they definitely did not get the return they could have had they shipped them off earlier. I think the FO has realized if a deal isn't imminent, you have to move them when the market is hot, not when other teams know you don't have any bargaining power.

Yeah 8.5 games back now and this team has not shown enough to make you think they can put together a consistent stretch of winning to consider being buyers. Think I saw someone make a comment somewhere how to get to 87 wins they'd have to play .630 ball the rest of the way and I don't think they have that in them. Stroman and Bellinger are going to land the Cubs some impact prospects with how they have played this season. They should be able to ask for a package that includes a team's top 10 organizational prospect as there are going to be several teams interesting in both and I can see the Cubs offering to pay for part of their salaries in order to "buy" a quality prospect in a deal too. Make your bid to resign these guys in the offseason but keeping them at this point isn't practical for a team destined to miss the playoffs. I think the odds of resigning Bellinger regardless probably is not good because he's a Boras client and someone will likely overpay for him as most usually do when Boras is their agent. Stroman is 32, I dunno how many years you offer on a deal but I wouldn't go anymore than 5 with him, 3 or 4 would be preferred. Will be interesting to see what the market for both of them this offseason is. We all would like to see them finally "build" something but may have to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward this offseason to do that and if this team isn't even winning enough now with these guys you may as well cash in and get some more some more young team controlled talent that you can potentially use the farm system depth to make a bigger deal somewhere else later.

I can see the Cubs listening to offers on Hendricks too as well as Fulmer and depending on their strategy for next year guys they either have an option year or arbitration eligible like Gomes Merryweather Tauchman could be in conversations if they don't see them as part of the roster next year or some teams offers them something worth considering moving them. I don't see much if any market at all for the "spare pieces" guys like Wisdom, Madrigal (currently is hurt) Barnhart and Mancini and as much as some here would like to shed contracts and move on from guys that have struggled like Suzuki, Happ, and Taillon the Cubs likely are not shopping them nor would there be much interest in them given their contracts and production right now.