***Official 2023 Chicago Cubs Thread***

[CYdTracked]

I dont know what the long game here is either. The main problem is I still don't think they have a very good farm system. At least not in comparison to where they were at during the 2014 rebuild.

PCA is currently ranked 15th, but after that you have to go all the way down in the 70s for Alcantara. Meanwhile you have teams like the Orioles who are already good have 4 guys in the Top 50 who haven't even played in the majors yet.

This

I said this 2 years ago, there's absolutely no reason they shouldn't have the top minor league system right now with all the talent they gave away the last 2 years.

I think the offense is serviceable but there are huge black holes right now at 1st and 3rd, two of the most important power positions.

I'm holding my judgement on some of the top prospects in the system until we see them get to Chicago. There will always been an adjustment period for most guys. Other than PCA the odds are with as many OF they have stocked up on at least 1 or 2 more will work out too I would guess, Canario seemed like one of those guys before he got hurt last year. I think there is some diamonds in the rough with the pitching too but they still need some development in the minors before they make it to Chicago. I remember my 1st impression of Steele in the majors was he was not going to be good and look at him now, he sure looks like a guy that could be a quality #2 or 3 guy in the rotation for awhile. Some of these guys may need to convert to relievers too, Alzolay didn't pan out as a starter but now that he's been healthy and moved to the bullpen is one of the few bright spots in the bullpen right now. Got Palencia in Iowa right now throwing 100 mph that was just converted to the bullpen. I have hope that Amaya now that he's healthy and getting some big league experience can be part of the solution at catcher going forward.

Completely agree about 1B and 3B being holes. 1B should be able to address through free agency or trade or at worst converting someone in house there. It's usually not a position that is hard to find a quick fix for. 3B is another story, no one currently in house that looks like the solution there so either need to spend big on Chapman in free agency or hope one becomes available through a trade. Never been keen on Wisdom, reminds me too much of the problems we had after 2016 with guys that were all or nothing hitters that strike out a lot but can hit some homers while batting in the low 200s. Supposedly the strategy with this current rebuild was trying to move away from those kinds of players and focus more on guys that make quality contact and not rely so much on the home run to generate offense. Still waiting to see that happen unfortunately.

 

[NoCreativity]

I'm holding my judgement on some of the top prospects in the system until we see them get to Chicago. There will always been an adjustment period for most guys. Other than PCA the odds are with as many OF they have stocked up on at least 1 or 2 more will work out too I would guess, Canario seemed like one of those guys before he got hurt last year. I think there is some diamonds in the rough with the pitching too but they still need some development in the minors before they make it to Chicago. I remember my 1st impression of Steele in the majors was he was not going to be good and look at him now, he sure looks like a guy that could be a quality #2 or 3 guy in the rotation for awhile. Some of these guys may need to convert to relievers too, Alzolay didn't pan out as a starter but now that he's been healthy and moved to the bullpen is one of the few bright spots in the bullpen right now. Got Palencia in Iowa right now throwing 100 mph that was just converted to the bullpen. I have hope that Amaya now that he's healthy and getting some big league experience can be part of the solution at catcher going forward.

Completely agree about 1B and 3B being holes. 1B should be able to address through free agency or trade or at worst converting someone in house there. It's usually not a position that is hard to find a quick fix for. 3B is another story, no one currently in house that looks like the solution there so either need to spend big on Chapman in free agency or hope one becomes available through a trade. Never been keen on Wisdom, reminds me too much of the problems we had after 2016 with guys that were all or nothing hitters that strike out a lot but can hit some homers while batting in the low 200s. Supposedly the strategy with this current rebuild was trying to move away from those kinds of players and focus more on guys that make quality contact and not rely so much on the home run to generate offense. Still waiting to see that happen unfortunately.

I guess my whole problem and why I'm getting frustrated is we are ranked 12th in minor league systems right now, yet we have teams like the Dodgers, Rangers, and Orioles who are all playoff teams and yet still have alot better prospects than we do.

There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't have the top system right now, none of those other teams have sold off the kind of talent the Cubs have the last 3 years.

I just think we got screwed back in alot of those deals, teams were able to get proven All-Star talent and didn't even give up their top prospects in return.

 

[ISUCubswin]

I guess my whole problem and why I'm getting frustrated is we are ranked 12th in minor league systems right now, yet we have teams like the Dodgers, Rangers, and Orioles who are all playoff teams and yet still have alot better prospects than we do.

There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't have the top system right now, none of those other teams have sold off the kind of talent the Cubs have the last 3 years.

I just think we got screwed back in alot of those deals, teams were able to get proven All-Star talent and didn't even give up their top prospects in return.

To be fair, since trading them, Baez and Bryant have been total failures. Jed’s best move as GM, other than Stroman, is probably not resigning those two

 

[CYdTracked]

I guess my whole problem and why I'm getting frustrated is we are ranked 12th in minor league systems right now, yet we have teams like the Dodgers, Rangers, and Orioles who are all playoff teams and yet still have alot better prospects than we do.

There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't have the top system right now, none of those other teams have sold off the kind of talent the Cubs have the last 3 years.

I just think we got screwed back in alot of those deals, teams were able to get proven All-Star talent and didn't even give up their top prospects in return.

Part of the issue is we waited too long to trade off some of that core. Traded 3 guys off in the last year of their contracts that were rental players so the type of return isn't going to be as good as if they had another year or 2 of control. Also those guys weren't exactly having all-star caliber years leading up to being traded too. Bryant may have made the All Start game in 2021 but he had a pretty pedestrian season finishing with just 25 HR and 73 RBI. To be honest he had been progressively less productive every season since his MVP year in 2016 with a bit of a rebound in 2019. All 3 were coming off bad 2020 season too. It is what it is, while they maybe didn't snatch someone's top prospects PCA, Killian, Canario, and Alcantara are hardly busts for returns for guys they were not going to resign and traded away as rentals. Looking at last year Ben Brown could be a decent prospect that got back by taking a shot on Dave Robertson, I think Wesneski could still be a nice return for a middle reliever that wound up getting hurt and only pitched in 13 games since they traded him. The 1 trade that is going to go down as a failure was Darvish and right now it looks like Caissie is the only one they got back that may even make it to the majors. They should have traded Schwarber after his big 2019 season but they missed the boat on opportunity there too. Didn't move Contreras at the deadline last year and appears that the market for him wasn't that hot anyways even in free agency too.

In hindsight would this team be any better than it is today had they extended Rizzo Baez and Bryant for the kind of money they were seeking at the time? My opinion is they'd probably be even worse off as would be strapped to some bad contracts for guys that would not be putting up the kind of productions guys getting paid like that should.

 

[CYdTracked]

To be fair, since trading them, Baez and Bryant have been total failures. Jed’s best move as GM, other than Stroman, is probably not resigning those two

Exactly my thoughts too. I would have been fine keeping Rizzo around for what he's been making with the Yankees. He would still be better than any 1B they have plugged in since they traded him and they wouldn't be locked into a lengthy contract and could have provided some leadership during this rebuild. Then again I can't blame him for wanting to play for a contender at this point in his careeer either. Bryant can't stay healthy lately and Baez has regressed even more with his bat so I have no regrets moving on from them.

 

[Clonefan32]

To be fair, since trading them, Baez and Bryant have been total failures. Jed’s best move as GM, other than Stroman, is probably not resigning those two

Not resigning them was smart, but the way they were shipped off wasn't. They traded them when they had the absolute least amount of leverage possible. Should have been dealt a year or two prior as it became apparent those teams had huge flaws and weren't contenders.

 

[ISUCubswin]

I'll be the one to paint a dark picture.

How do you make 2024 a playoff caliber team? You can certainly get creative, but the CBA will be set at $237 million.

$18 million will go to Jameson Taillon, who has done what any of us could do. This should be investigated for gross neglect and mismanagement of funds. You are just about to get Jason Heyward off the books and you pull this ****. **** you, Jed.
$5.5 million will go to David Bote to play in Iowa. **** you, Theo.
$5 million will go to Jason Heyward from deferments. **** you, Theo.
$5 million will go to Cody Bellinger when he opts out (unless he gets traded)
$3.25 million to go to Tucker Barnhart to get a negative WAR. **** you, Jed.
$1.5 million will go to Hendricks on a buyout
$1 million will go to Boxberger on a buyout. **** you, Jed.

Puts you at $39.25 million being thrown in the trash, $197 million remaining.

Nearly 25% of the money you still have is then going to Happ and Suzuki, who have a combined 1.3 WAR through 110 games - there are 133 players in the MLB right now with a 1.3 WAR or better alone.

I wanted the Cubs to be in a spot where they could afford Ohtani, and I would still take Ohtani in a heartbeat, but the question is would paying Ohtani be worth leaving massive holes at 3B, 1B, your bullpen, and your starting rotation. Or do you keep that Ohtani money and go get two top pitchers and Chapman.

 

[cyfan92]

I'll be the one to paint a dark picture.

How do you make 2024 a playoff caliber team? You can certainly get creative, but the CBA will be set at $237 million.

$18 million will go to Jameson Taillon, who has done what any of us could do. This should be investigated for gross neglect and mismanagement of funds. You are just about to get Jason Heyward off the books and you pull this ****. **** you, Jed.
$5.5 million will go to David Bote to play in Iowa. **** you, Theo.
$5 million will go to Jason Heyward from deferments. **** you, Theo.
$5 million will go to Cody Bellinger when he opts out (unless he gets traded)
$3.25 million to go to Tucker Barnhart to get a negative WAR. **** you, Jed.
$1.5 million will go to Hendricks on a buyout
$1 million will go to Boxberger on a buyout. **** you, Jed.

Puts you at $39.25 million being thrown in the trash, $197 million remaining.

Nearly 25% of the money you still have is then going to Happ and Suzuki, who have a combined 1.3 WAR through 110 games - there are 133 players in the MLB right now with a 1.3 WAR or better alone.

I wanted the Cubs to be in a spot where they could afford Ohtani, and I would still take Ohtani in a heartbeat, but the question is would paying Ohtani be worth leaving massive holes at 3B, 1B, your bullpen, and your starting rotation. Or do you keep that Ohtani money and go get two top pitchers and Chapman.

Luckily most of us can't get Marquee to watch the dumpster fire anyway

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I'm not ready to give up on Mervis yet. He's got no chance to adjust as they've somehow decided Trey ******* Mancini half the starts there while refusing to use Mervis at DH.

I'll go negative here and drop some real truth on PCA. His ceiling is Lorenzo Cain. Gold glove defender that hits 20 HRs and steals 20 bags. Fantastic piece for a good team but not a guy that you build your future around.

I'm more down on this franchise now that I've probably ever been. At least when they were bad before they didn't have ******* front office people lying about trying to compete and 'intelligent spending'.

 

[CYdTracked]

I'm not ready to give up on Mervis yet. He's got no chance to adjust as they've somehow decided Trey ******* Mancini half the starts there while refusing to use Mervis at DH.

I'll go negative here and drop some real truth on PCA. His ceiling is Lorenzo Cain. Gold glove defender that hits 20 HRs and steals 20 bags. Fantastic piece for a good team but not a guy that you build your future around.

I'm more down on this franchise now that I've probably ever been. At least when they were bad before they didn't have ******* front office people lying about trying to compete and 'intelligent spending'.

I'm in the same boat with Mervis. Way too soon to call him a bust after just 81 MLB plate appearances. Watched a recent game and he just looks frustrated and lacking confidence right now. They brought him up and said he would play every day and that is not how he's been managed recently so hard for him to get the confidence he needs when the manager is not showing any confidence in him either. I have a feeling a trip back to Iowa to get him hitting again may be in the cards at some point.

As for the front office, outside of when Theo was running things it was pretty bad under Jim Hendry too who had this habit of signing washed up vets and not having much to show for developing players through the farm system. Right now I think this is a crossroads for Hoyer, selling off again this year is the right move but they have got to get agressive and either sign or trade for some guys that are ready to contribute right now and get the franchise on an upward tradjectory again. If we have another offseason of signing reclamation projects and vets that can be used as trade chips and not be serious bidders on the top pitchers and hitters on the free agent market or work a deal out to acquire one in a trade then they need to clean house with the front office too. I will give some credit to actually spending some smart money on Swanson as he is a quality SS that fills 1 big long term need. Taillon was a stretch signing for the terms they got him at. Hope he turns it around but that is going to be a rough contract for 4 years if he doesn't. No more of these Hosmer type deals or pickup any cheap vet reliever off the scrap heap and hope to catch lightning in a bottle to flip him at the deadline too. I don't want them to go out and blow a bunch of long term money on middle relief either as that usually turns out bad as middle relief pitching is such a crapshoot from year to year but some smart spending for the bullpen is needed if we don't have internal options ready for high leverage roles yet.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I'll go to my grave saying signing Bryce Harper would've re-energized the core and led to a late-90s Yankees style run.

Would it have been expensive to keep that group together? Yes. Would it have been worth it to win multiple titles? Absolutely.

Wrigley and the neighborhood already print money. Imagine if you had a team that was playing into late October every year with a season ticket waiting list staying in six figures...

 

[NoCreativity]

Luckily most of us can't get Marquee to watch the dumpster fire anyway

It's pretty bad, you basically get solid outings by Stroman and Steele, followed by bullpen meltdowns or not enough run support.

Happ, Swanson, Hoerner, and Bellinger is a solid core to build around but after that there's not much talent. Morel is coming back to earth and Mervis has been a huge bust so far.

I was watching every game early in the year, now I'm back down to once or twice a week. It's really bad baseball.

They really need to resign Stroman or give him an extension. Guy has been dealing all year and only had 1 bad outing. He's only 32 so i think they could still get 3-4 years out of him. Verlander seemed to get better when he hit his upper 30s so I'm sure they'll let Stroman walk and he'll win a Cy Young in a couple years.

It looks like they may have found a closer in Alzolay, we'll see how the rest of the year goes

 

[NoCreativity]

I'm not ready to give up on Mervis yet.

I am, watched him extensively at Iowa last year. You can tell some guys have it and some don't.

I've seen guys there like Kyle Tucker who put up average numbers but you can tell look the part, and you can tell guys like Mervis who are putting up huge numbers but dont look like a major league player.

I watched him 1 at bat last night and he looked lost, letting perfect strikes go by and then swinging on balls over his head that were ball 4. You can tell he's getting frustrated also because he threw his bat. It's going to get to the point where they will have to send him back down. Benching him does no good at this point if they think he is the future at first. You can't keep trotting a guy out there batting .170.

 

[CYdTracked]

You can't keep trotting a guy out there batting .170.

Yet they've done that with how many other players batting around .200 or less with more MLB than him the past 2 years... this year alone got Wisdom Barnhart Mastronbouni and Rios batting anywhere from .201 to .071. Agree its time to send Mervis back to Iowa but wait and see if he can make adjustments and then give him another look in Chicago when he's hitting again.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Malpractice. The dude is making $3 million more than Jameson Taillon.

On the other hand, a combination of trading Bellinger and Stroman while releasing Hendricks frees up $41 million to add to the estimated $77 million they currently have to spend next offseason.

In other words, they will be giving Ohtani $100 million a year and not signing anyone else the next 10 years knowing us dumb fans will buy Ohtani gear and help them pay off that contract while fielding a worthless team. Sans Ohtani.

 

[isucy86]

Baseball's TV Package at its best.

I switched streaming services and pay extra to watch Cubs games. Great Cubs pitching effort tonight, but its a FOX national game split audience. AND my option is Yankees vs. Red Sox - two teams I wouldn't walk across the street to watch.

 

[CloneinWDSM]

I’ll take the blame. Haven’t watched any Cubs baseball this year. Turn on the Game with 2 outs in the 8th as I saw Kyle had a No-No going…

 

[tman24]

I’ll take the blame. Haven’t watched any Cubs baseball this year. Turn on the Game with 2 outs in the 8th as I saw Kyle had a No-No going…

You and me both.

 

[CYdTracked]

Nice to see Hendricks dealing. When he was getting lit up the last couple years and to start his rehab this year thought he might be done but he's been gradually looking more like himself each start out lately.

 

[Cyforce]

Nice to see Hendricks dealing. When he was getting lit up the last couple years and to start his rehab this year thought he might be done but he's been gradually looking more like himself each start out lately.

2:13 minutes tells you he still has what it takes to dominate. Him and a healthy Steele completely change the rotation. Now if Taillon could get back to what he's been over his career.