***Official 2021 NCAA Tournament Thread***

[HFCS]

I feel like the -2 or greater are the real underperformances. Missing by 1 round isnt really *that* much of an underperformance especially if you're down near the bottom of that tier.

That's where the big 10 really sucked it up with 4 teams managing that, and where the pac 12 really shined.

Yeah, it's not perfect but it is always a decent indicator. It can be misleading if a lot of +1s or -1s get grouped together. Probably makes sense to give additional point for advancing to title game and winning title game.

I've seen leagues be massively overrated many years but I've never seen a conference overperform like the Pac 12 this year.

 

[CySmurf]

 

[AlaCyclone]

This was the 6th 51-49 score in tournament history, but the first time since the shot clock was implemented.

The only team to win an Elite Eight game in the shot-clock era with fewer points was UCLA in 2006 when they defeated Memphis 50-45.

Ben Howland.

 

[AlaCyclone]

View attachment 83528

To be fair. #10 SUNJ repped well winning their first round game over # 7 Clemson and playing #2 Houston tough.

 

[Halincandenza]

This Gonzaga team is one of the best CBB teams I have seen in the last 20 years.

 

[Acylum]

This Gonzaga team is one of the best CBB teams I have seen in the last 20 years.

I waver between this and thinking maybe their competition is down this year. I mean Iowa was a two seed for crying out loud.

 

[HFCS]

This Gonzaga team is one of the best CBB teams I have seen in the last 20 years.

Yeah a lot of these teams I kind of shake my head at how bad the drop off of level of play is from watching mostly NBA basketball, not the case at all with them.

 

[dahliaclone]

This Gonzaga team is one of the best CBB teams I have seen in the last 20 years.

They are fantastic and I think will win it all. But this year is so crazy and they play in a 'lesser' league. I'd say top 5 of the past 20 years for sure. Overall best though? Not sure. Maybe?

 

[Halincandenza]

They are fantastic and I think will win it all. But this year is so crazy and they play in a 'lesser' league. I'd say top 5 of the past 20 years for sure. Overall best though? Not sure. Maybe?

Just look at their analytics. It's crazy. They are definitely top 5.

 

[HFCS]

They are fantastic and I think will win it all. But this year is so crazy and they play in a 'lesser' league. I'd say top 5 of the past 20 years for sure. Overall best though? Not sure. Maybe?

I'm guessing they would be a 2-3 loss team in a major conference and still overall #1 and would have done just as well in the tournament.

Pretty rare these days for a team to go 21-0 or 25-0 through these swolen larger conferences. I'm trying to remember if or when the last time a team went through P6 league and tourney unbeaten.

I don't have a problem saying they're elite among elite if they win the next two.

 

[Halincandenza]

I'm guessing they would be a 2-3 loss team in a major conference and still overall #1 and would have done just as well in the tournament.

Pretty rare these days for a team to go 21-0 or 25-0 through these swolen larger conferences. I'm trying to remember if or when the last time a team went through P6 league and tourney unbeaten.

I don't have a problem saying they're elite among elite if they win the next two.

Kentucky went unbeaten in '15 in the SEC. and then lost in the National Semifinal to Wisconsin. That is also the team that is closest to Gonzaga in terms of their KP efficiency margin. The next closest is Kansas in '08 and then I think Duke in '02, nope Virginia is slightly better in'19.

Gonzaga 38.82
Kentucky 36.91
Kansas 35.21
Virginia 34.22
Duke 34.19

 

[Acylum]

Kentucky went unbeaten in '15 in the SEC. and then lost in the National Semifinal to Wisconsin. That is also the team that is closest to Gonzaga in terms of their KP efficiency. The next closest is Kansas in '08 and then I think Duke in '02.

‘76 Hoosiers? I think.

 

[HFCS]

Kentucky went unbeaten in '15 in the SEC. and then lost in the National Semifinal to Wisconsin. That is also the team that is closest to Gonzaga in terms of their KP efficiency. The next closest is Kansas in '08 and then I think Duke in '02.

I was kind of guessing that, but was not sure without looking it up. I remember them being ridiculously loaded those years.

NCAA tournament format is so fun, but it's really not even close to being a good tool to find the best college basketball team. Final Four/Elite 8 teams are all usually playing the best ball at that time. But in the NBA format, with 2-3 exceptions of really horrible officiating in close series, the best basketball team is clearly the Finals winner. There's usually no doubt and the format kind of demands it. The Kentucky team you mentioned, basketball experts and fans can probably admit they were the best team on the year.

 

[Tornado man]

But in the NBA format, with 2-3 exceptions of really horrible officiating in close series, the best basketball team is clearly the Finals winner. There's usually no doubt and the format kind of demands it.

Say what? So a team that wins a closely contested 7 games series is "clearly" the best team? Don't think so.

 

[HFCS]

Say what? So a team that wins a closely contested 7 games series is "clearly" the best team? Don't think so.

Well it's the best way anybody could think of realistically. I'm an avid NBA fan and a casual NCAA fan outside of ISU. Of course it's possible to have years where the best teams are an eyelash apart.

There were only three times in the past 35 years where I thought the best team wasn't crowned NBA Finals champion. It was officiating/scandal related and not performance related. (Kings, Suns, Mavs were the three that were at least somewhat robbed by scandal imho)

You could argue for something like the EPL soccer title where if we applied it to NCAA basketball we'd care even more about the Big 12 regular season championship and we all ignore the NCAA tourney and Big 12 tourney...but I actually think that isn't any better in some ways.

For example the '95 Rockets were only a 6 seed but I consider them one of the better teams of the past 35 years. They had the best player in the league that year at his peak, they defeated the top 3 seeds in the West on their way to the finals and then embarassed the East champ. An EPL style champinship says they were about 9th in the NBA. Long playoff series are simply the best way to determine the truly best team. Doesn't work for college basketball and the current college format is crazy fun, but we all know the best team doesn't get crowned in the NCAA tourney every year or even most years. If Gonzaga wins it this year it will be one of those years where the team everyone thinks is probably the best is the champ.

(nothing special about 35 years other than that's how many Finals I have watched)

 

[cyclones500]

Well it's the best way anybody could think of realistically. I'm an avid NBA fan and a casual NCAA fan outside of ISU. Of course it's possible to have years where the best teams are an eyelash apart.

There were only three times in the past 35 years where I thought the best team wasn't crowned NBA Finals champion. It was officiating/scandal related and not performance related. (Kings, Suns, Mavs were the three that were at least somewhat robbed by scandal imho)

You could argue for something like the EPL soccer title where if we applied it to NCAA basketball we'd care even more about the Big 12 regular season championship and we all ignore the NCAA tourney and Big 12 tourney...but I actually think that isn't any better in some ways.

For example the '95 Rockets were only a 6 seed but I consider them one of the better teams of the past 35 years. They had the best player in the league that year at his peak, they defeated the top 3 seeds in the West on their way to the finals and then embarassed the East champ. An EPL style champinship says they were about 9th in the NBA. Long playoff series are simply the best way to determine the truly best team. Doesn't work for college basketball and the current college format is crazy fun, but we all know the best team doesn't get crowned in the NCAA tourney every year or even most years. If Gonzaga wins it this year it will be one of those years where the team everyone thinks is probably the best is the champ.

(nothing special about 35 years other than that's how many Finals I have watched)

I agree the NCAAT isn't ideal for getting a "reliable" champion at least some years, but my frame of mind is I don't care *that* much if the absolute best is crowned. It comes with the territory. But plenty of times "One of the best" teams wins it.

It's kind of trade-off -- the thrill of the tournament process as it exists is going to have some flaws in the regard of creaming rising to the top. I wouldn't want 8 UK vs. 7 UConn if it happened frequently. But that's an abberation.

Making the championship a 3-game series seems helpful to separate wheat-from-chaff, in cases when it isn't a 1 vs. 1. But I think about the '16 Nova/UNC title game and that thrilling finish -- what if that were Game 1? Game 2 (and perhaps 3 if necessary) would be anticlimactic.

I suppose the flipside of that is there could be a dud game 1 and it'd go full 3 games and get a buzzer-beater for that. But I wouldn't want to watch a best-of-3 version of the UConn vs. Butler title, for example.

 

[HFCS]

I agree the NCAAT isn't ideal for getting a "reliable" champion at least some years, but my frame of mind is I don't care *that* much if the absolute best is crowned. It comes with the territory. But plenty of times "One of the best" teams wins it.

It's kind of trade-off -- the thrill of the tournament process as it exists is going to have some flaws in the regard of creaming rising to the top. I wouldn't want 8 UK vs. 7 UConn if it happened frequently. But that's an abberation.

Making the championship a 3-game series seems helpful to separate wheat-from-chaff, in cases when it isn't a 1 vs. 1. But I think about the '16 Nova/UNC title game and that thrilling finish -- what if that were Game 1? Game 2 (and perhaps 3 if necessary) would be anticlimactic.

I suppose the flipside of that is there could be a dud game 1 and it'd go full 3 games and get a buzzer-beater for that. But I wouldn't want to watch a best-of-3 version of the UConn vs. Butler title, for example.

Yeah, the fun chaotic mess is worth the inexact nature of the results.

I really don't like much regular season college basketball outside of ISU...but I'm glued to the tourney for the format even in years ISU isn't involved.

 

[cyclones500]

Yeah, the fun chaotic mess is worth the inexact nature of the results.

I really don't like much regular season college basketball outside of ISU...but I'm glued to the tourney for the format even in years ISU isn't involved.

I've have definite CBB over NBA preference for quite some. But this season was weird, it's the least engaged I've been with college basketball in like 30 years. Combination of the no-fans aspect, erratic scheduling, few non-league games – and ISU's non-existent impact was the cherry on the bottom of the cake.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Yeah, the fun chaotic mess is worth the inexact nature of the results.

I really don't like much regular season college basketball outside of ISU...but I'm glued to the tourney for the format even in years ISU isn't involved.

I have gotten to be the same way. I am such a huge high school fan that I don't really have much time for college basketball until high school season is over. But I don't miss a minute of the tournament. I am an absolute fanatic when it comes to the tournament. I haven't missed a tournament selection show since 1982 and built a website and blog dedicated to the tournament.

 

[cyclones500]

I have gotten to be the same way. I am such a huge high school fan that I don't really have much time for college basketball until high school season is over. But I don't miss a minute of the tournament. I am an absolute fanatic when it comes to the tournament. I haven't missed a tournament selection show since 1982 and built a website and blog dedicated to the tournament.

And a valuable site it is.