NY Times Article about JTS

[diaclone]

Honestly I didn't like the story at all. The act like Iowa State needed an excuse to name it after Trice. That was not the case at all. The students fought for it and got it. It took a little longer than it should. However, the way they phrased the story made it sound like Iowa State is a bunch of racists who named the stadium to look like we were not racists.

"longer than it should"??

You needed to be at ISU in the 1970's when this first arose. Racism certainly played a role in its "taking so long."

The story did not make ISU look like a bunch of racists. It just exposed how racism impacted the eventual naming of the stadium. A bit of a difference.

The history of naming a freaking stadium after a football player died for ISU parallels the fight for equality for black folks. When the stadium was finished for the 1975 season, it should have been named for Trice right away. My god, it's a great story. But it took a quarter of a century to name a damn football stadium for a black player. I

 

[diaclone]

Yeah, if they want to talk about compromise they can talk about Cyclone Stadium with Jack Trice Field. The activists weren't satisfied with that half solution and pushed for the complete renaming of the stadium.

It was good that the activists continued to push - if it's a black issue, white folks rarely want to acknowledge an important black event....

 

[HFCS]

Funny I started this thread in the cave because I thought it would get political. That thread is boring and generally non political.

This thread is much more interesting discussion (because it's more political).

 

[CTTB78]

.....The history of naming a freaking stadium after a football player died for ISU parallels the fight for equality for black folks. When the stadium was finished for the 1975 season, it should have been named for Trice right away. My god, it's a great story. But it
took a quarter of a century to name a damn football stadium for a black player.
I

Took a little longer than that. ISU had the opportunity when they renamed State Field in 1938.

 

[diaclone]

Took a little longer than that. ISU had the opportunity when they renamed State Field in 1938.

What does that have to do with something that started 40 years after that?

Answer - nothing at all

 

[CTTB78]

What does that have to do with something that started 40 years after that?

Answer - nothing at all

Wasn't Jack Trice a great story in 1938 too?

 

[Frak]

I agree. Are there some parts of the story of which on one might take offense - yes! But overall I saw it as positive. Although didn't Texas just rename their stadium for former black Heisman trophy winners? Or maybe that was a proposal and not final...

I compare this to those that pick out one line of a story (like the Bible) or history (like Lincoln's signing the death warrants of 39 native Americans in the Great Sioux uprising) without understanding the entire context and meaning of the bible chapter or book in which it occurs or the historical setting of Lincoln's decision and as Paul Harvey would have said, "the rest of the story", Getting overwhelmed with that now as part of the upcoming primaries in Kansas....picking quotes or previous votes without the entire context being considered.

Anyway - great discussion and I love differing viewpoints and discussion without anybody getting offended or offensive! Thanks!

Texas renamed their field, not their stadium.

 

[diaclone]

Wasn't Jack Trice a great story in 1938 too?

Everyone forgot about Jack Trice by that time. Isn't that what the article implied?

1938 is not 1975 nor is it 2020.

 

[CTTB78]

Everyone forgot about Jack Trice by that time. Isn't that what the article implied?...

I guess I didn't see the implication of Jack Trice being forgotten by 1938 in the article.

 

[Tornado man]

I didn't realize that Trice was not permitted to eat with his team. I guess ISU was no different than other places in 1923.

 

[theshadow]

I didn't realize that Trice was not permitted to eat with his team. I guess ISU was no different than other places in 1923.

Iowa State didn't make that decision. The hotel in Minneapolis did.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

A lot of ISU students died in world war II and WWI. Did alumni know in the 20's -70's that he explicitly died because of intentionally stomping on him? No. Never had and never will. I absolutely think the ISU community waited too long to rename, but it was complicated.

Just to give some perspective, 5 million people died in the USA from the Spanish Flu in the late teens, how many people died in WWI, what were the affects on people's psyche from the depression, then WWII and the atom bomb, then the Korean War, then Vietnam, the 70's and then the AG crisis.

Did we wait too long because the ISU community is racist? Very few, if any, on this board experienced what I have brought up. Why would the NYT and some people on the board pass judgement that we waited "too long", that we intentionally didn't do it because he was black, or whatever reason. It was too long, but sometimes things take on a life of there own. Was it purely done out of racism and stupidity?

Why did our founding fathers know that racism was wrong and gave us until 1808 ( I think - past readings) to fix it? Why did it take a civil war to fix it 84 years later? Washington owned slaves like a lot of the other founding fathers. They were flawed. Does it make it right? No.

Sorry for the rant. I see the NYT and some posters assume the normal reaction - they waited too long because they were racist. No, it was complicated. Life expectancy in the 40's reached 63. In the 20's it was 48??

Anyway, I hope u get my point. Flame away.

 

[Acylum]

The NYT, with its rich history of antisemitism, probably shouldn’t be throwing many stones.

 

[Tornado man]

Iowa State didn't make that decision. The hotel in Minneapolis did.

Iowa State didn't let Blacks live on campus in 1923 - Trice lived in a room in downtown Ames.

"Black students could not live on campus, so he (Trice) found an upstairs room in the Masonic Temple building downtown, two miles from campus."

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/11/25/7275681/jack-trice-iowa-state-football-profile

 

[beentherebefore]

Society and the United States continues to evolve, and we continue to work toward forming "a more perfect union." Everything needs to be considered with perspective.

Anyway, The Jack Trice story is just about as American as I can think of. And it is part of the history of the nation's first land grant university (the one with a building named after George Washington Carver, a famous alum who happened to be Black and a building named after a famous suffragette who used the words of her time to help get women the right to vote).

We should not deny history, but we should learn from it. I am a proud alum of ISU, and even if JTS was not properly named in 1975, it certainly is appropriately named NOW.

 

[theshadow]

Iowa State didn't let Blacks live on campus in 1923 - Trice lived in a room in downtown Ames.

"Black students could not live on campus, so he (Trice) found an upstairs room in the Masonic Temple building downtown, two miles from campus."

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/11/25/7275681/jack-trice-iowa-state-football-profile

Which is a different statement than "he wasn't allowed to eat with the team."

 

[Cyclad]

I am not a Catt historian, but she always struck me as not so much having complex or evolving views, and more as saying what was expedient. When the battle for the 19th amendment was on she was very derogatory toward people of color, Natives, and immigrants.

Well, I am no expert either, unless one magazine article and a 4 hour TV documentary makes me one. As I said, I think she walked a very tight rope. For example, it is an actual quote where she said, “ women’s suffrage will advance the cause of white supremacy, not deter it.” Sounds pretty damming. But, a constitutional amendment requires ratification by the states. As I said, the south did not want black women voting, as they were actively trying to keep black men from voting. But her real pitch was, if you give women the vote, there will be more white women that black women voting so it won’t hurt your cause. That said, I will have to study more to give a sounder assessment. But I do know this, she and Alice Paul made the 19th amendment pass.
BTW - Tennessee cast the final vote in favor of the amendment. As I understand it, they were the last chance for passage.

 

[BoxsterCy]

Iowa State didn't let Blacks live on campus in 1923 - Trice lived in a room in downtown Ames.

"Black students could not live on campus, so he (Trice) found an upstairs room in the Masonic Temple building downtown, two miles from campus."

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/11/25/7275681/jack-trice-iowa-state-football-profile

Same for our most celebrated first black faculty member, George Washington Carver, decades earlier. Proud to have these men as part of our university heritage but not totally comfortable with all of the patting ourselves on the back that sometimes accompanies the reflections on their ISU story.

 

[cysmiley]

Ph.D., 2005, Cultural Studies of Sport, The University of Iowa

Whar her full disclosure; no pass peer review LOL

 

[Clone83]

More on Carrie Chapman Catt, including (similar to the documentary on George Washington Carver), an Iowa PBS documentary on her, that first aired May 5, 2020:

Biography
https://www.womenshistory.org/education-resources/biographies/carrie-chapman-catt

Google search on “Carrie Chapman Catt Warrior for Women”
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...LjGYAQCgAQKgAQGwAQ8&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

I linked a Google search on the documentary, since there are so many ways people might view it. I presume it will be available for viewing though for a long time at the Iowa PBS website.

The documentary complements the American Experience 2-part program that aired earlier this month
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/vote/

It covers a lot of the same ground, but with more detail on Catt.

I don’t recall for sure, the AE documentary might have made the same point, but the Catt documentary pointed out how the women’s suffrage movement grew out of the abolitionist movement. I know the leaders of the women’s suffrage movement were disappointed as to the inaction on their cause after the Civil War. But without revisiting it, I don’t recall if the AE documentary was as explicit about the abolitionist movement part.

Both documentaries together provide context in which the 19th Amendment was passed.