Midway (2019) trailer

I will not look at the trailer as Midway was and still is one of my all-time favorite movies. Just an great all star cast. Fonda, Heston, Mitchum, Holbrook, Ford, Coburn, etc, and the likes of Pat Morita, Robert Wagner, Tom Selleck and even Erik Estrada and throw in Miami Dolphin's Larry Csonka as LtCdr Delaney.
 
Looked at the trailer again and torn between what was the dumbest image (1) Zeros strafing a street from an elevation of 20 feet or (2) a formation of a hundred Japanese planes bearing down in Midway at low altitude in one yuge formation like it's a thunderstorm wall cloud. LOL at both.
 
"War Horse" doesn't count? 2011 not recent enough for you?

Never saw it. Meant to but never did. Wasn't really all that excited about it because it looked like it was a story about a kid trying to save a horse with the war as the background. Figured it was going to be cheesy.

Are you saying I should give it a chance?

I'm looking for something where the war itself is the focal point and the movie makes you feel like you're there. Along the lines of Platoon or Saving Private Ryan.
 
Never saw it. Meant to but never did. Wasn't really all that excited about it because it looked like it was a story about a kid trying to save a horse with the war as the background. Figured it was going to be cheesy.

Are you saying I should give it a chance?

I'm looking for something where the war itself is the focal point and the movie makes you feel like you're there. Along the lines of Platoon or Saving Private Ryan.

It's been a while, but I remember gritty moments in that movie. Hardcore by Disney standards, IMO. Plenty of sentimental moments as well of course, but worth seeing.
 
Never saw it. Meant to but never did. Wasn't really all that excited about it because it looked like it was a story about a kid trying to save a horse with the war as the background. Figured it was going to be cheesy.

Are you saying I should give it a chance?

I'm looking for something where the war itself is the focal point and the movie makes you feel like you're there. Along the lines of Platoon or Saving Private Ryan.

Geez....Platoon. Even the 'lighter' moments are terribly uncomfortable.
 
I wish someone would make a movie about the Battle off Samar, where a small group of US escort ships called Taffy 3 took on the brunt of the main Japanese fleet. I highly recommend reading The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors if you're not familiar with this battle. Those guys showed bravery that almost can't be fathomed.

There's a pretty good summary of the battle in a series of YouTube videos as well.
 
Roland Emmerich does not have a good track record recently. Independence Day 2 stunk to high heaven. From the trailer, the effects look way too "crisp", like a hyper-realistic cartoon. Perhaps the director should have taken a cue from the 2001 Pearl Harbor movie and its use of more practical effects.
 
I hope the movie recognizes the sacrifices of the defenders who stayed behind at the island to help sell the ruse.
 
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Did you see where we no longer have the skills or ability to form high-grade steel into certain submarine hulls? The bomb does not worry me....what is the point? You are right, war is over, governments are folded and the remainders will be Mad Max. What is more interesting is question of what has happened to America.,,,could we mobilize a homefront anymore? How is this trending?

I am not sure where you are going with this. Is it that we have just "gone soft?" No, not really, the calculus is just now much different than in the early Twentieth-Century.

Large-scale, industrial wars of attrition were how war worked from roughly the American Civil War, the Crimean War, or the Russo-Japanese War (depending on who you ask, I tend towards the end of the Civil War) through the end of the Second World War. While the damage done during those wars was terrible, it was piecemeal through small arms, artillery, vehicles, and aircraft, and high (though conventional) explosives delivered by various means, eventually leading to the flattening of numerous Japanese and European cities with heavy bombers.

Then nuclear weapons came along. What used to take years and thousands of aircraft could be done in a single moment, and there are very few practical ways to stop a nuclear weapon from making it through air defenses. This is even truer now with nuclear weapons hidden away on nearly undetectable submarines, stealth bombers, or ready for quick launches from silos before they could be destroyed by offensive strikes. Thermonuclear weapons now are also orders of magnitude more powerful than the A-bombs that fell on Japan. The risk for great powers fighting each other directly, which was already high even before nuclear weapons, became high enough where nobody is willing to risk instant annihilation for basically any rewards.

This created the Cold War, a geopolitical competition between an American-led Western Bloc and a Soviet-led Eastern Bloc, with both sides going out of their way to confront each other directly but fighting various proxy wars to expand their power and influence throughout the world nonetheless. We know these as Korean, Vietnam, and our first foray into Afghanistan, as well as others. Sure, the USA/NATO and USSR/WP could have just had WWIII on the plains of Central Europe anytime they wanted to and settled things with an industrial war of attrition, sort of like what Patton wanted to do at the end of Patton, but when one or both sides had nuclear weapons and such a direct conflict could have easily escalated into immediate mutual destruction, both sides became much more cautious about risking such a thing at any point given the downside.

Heck, we almost had a nuclear war with the Soviet Union during the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was precipitated by aggressive foreign policy by both sides (though more the Americans, to me). If it could almost happen almost accidentally like that, the risks of it happening during an industrial conflict against each other is no longer a risk. It is a certainty.

There are other reasons for that type of war becoming obsolete, too...

-- the world rightfully committing itself to not have another large-scale, destructive conflict after the Great War and the World War through various mutual understandings and various institutions, though those have become increasingly frayed and dated this century
-- global trade has integrated the world economy in ways it has never before in human history, even more than it was 10-15 years ago since China jointed the WTO... we are making so much money off each other and have industrial supply chains that are so linked together it is hard to imagine an industrial war between the major great powers when they quite literally need each other to produce much of anything nowadays
-- the world is older now and more prosperous... unstable societies are generally young and impoverished (especially ones with idle young men)... risking a 1914 standard of living, which was not very high, is very different from risking a 2019 one

You do not need to worry or think about a large-scale industrial war of attrition with the Russians or the Chinese. Everybody has nuclear weapons, so everybody would proceed cautiously, and I bet we all have each other's infrastructure and communications networks thoroughly hacked, which has the same deterrence effect as nukes. You turn off my power, I turn off yours, so we should play nice. Little spats over minor things, such as the war the Chinese and Soviets fought on the Manchurian border in 1969 or something in the South China Sea nowadays, and proxy wars are definitely still possible, but the risks of nuclear exchange is way too high to imagine a long and drawn out conflict, such as WWII, between major powers today.

Being scared of a nuclear exchange is not "soft." It is sanity. If you want a Mad Max future, a nuclear exchange is the way to have it, not "soft" governments or people. I think the lore of Mad Max itself is based around a nuclear war destroying civilization as we know it, right?
 
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I am not sure where you are going with this. Is it that we have just "gone soft?" No, not really, the calculus is just now much different than in the early Twentieth-Century.

Large-scale, industrial wars of attrition were how war worked from roughly the American Civil War, the Crimean War, or the Russo-Japanese War (depending on who you ask, I tend towards the end of the Civil War) through the end of the Second World War. While the damage done during those wars was terrible, it was piecemeal through small arms, artillery, vehicles, and aircraft, and high (though conventional) explosives delivered by various means, eventually leading to the flattening of numerous Japanese and European cities with heavy bombers.

Then nuclear weapons came along. What used to take years and thousands of aircraft could be done in a single moment, and there are very few practical ways to stop a nuclear weapon from making it through air defenses. This is even truer now with nuclear weapons hidden away on nearly undetectable submarines, stealth bombers, or ready for quick launches from silos before they could be destroyed by offensive strikes. Thermonuclear weapons now are also orders of magnitude more powerful than the A-bombs that fell on Japan. The risk for great powers fighting each other directly, which was already high even before nuclear weapons, became high enough where nobody is willing to risk instant annihilation for basically any rewards.

This created the Cold War, a geopolitical competition between an American-led Western Bloc and a Soviet-led Eastern Bloc, with both sides going out of their way to confront each other directly but fighting various proxy wars to expand their power and influence throughout the world nonetheless. We know these as Korean, Vietnam, and our first foray into Afghanistan, as well as others. Sure, the USA/NATO and USSR/WP could have just had WWIII on the plains of Central Europe anytime they wanted to and settled things with an industry war of attrition, sort of like what Patton wanted to do at the end of Patton, but when one or both sides had nuclear weapons and such a direct conflict could have easily escalated into immediate mutual destruction, both sides became much more cautious about risking such a thing at any point given the downside.

Heck, we almost had a nuclear war with the Soviet Union during the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was precipitated by aggressive foreign policy by both sides (though more the Americans, to me). If it could almost happen almost accidentally like that, the risks of it happening during an industrial conflict against each other is no longer a risk. It is a certainty.

There are other reasons for that type of war becoming obsolete, too...

-- the world rightfully committing itself to not have another large-scale, destructive conflict after the Great War and the World War through various mutual understandings and various institutions, though those have become increasingly frayed and dated this century
-- global trade has integrated the world economy in ways it has never before in human history, even more than it was 10-15 years ago since China jointed the WTO... we are making so much money off each other and have industrial supply chains that are so linked together it is hard to imagine an industrial war between the major great powers when they quite literally need each other to produce much of anything nowadays
-- the world is older now and more prosperous... unstable societies are generally young and impoverished (especially ones with idle young men)... risking a 1914 standard of living, which was not very high, is very different from risking a 2019 one

You do not need to worry or think about a large-scale industrial war of attrition with the Russians or the Chinese. Everybody has nuclear weapons, so everybody would proceed cautiously, and I bet we all have each other's infrastructure and communications networks thoroughly hacked, which has the same deterrence effect as nukes. You turn off my power, I turn off yours, so we should play nice. Little spats over minor things, such as the war the Chinese and Soviets fought on the Manchurian border in 1969 or something in the South China Sea nowadays, and proxy wars are definitely still possible, but the risks of nuclear exchange is way too high to imagine a long and drawn out conflict, such as WWII, between major powers today.

Being scared of a nuclear exchange is not "soft." It is sanity. If you want a Mad Max future, a nuclear exchange is the way to have it, not "soft" governments or people. I think the lore of Mad Max itself is based around a nuclear war destroying civilization as we know it, right?

I just deleted about two paragraphs of response....probably be lost in translation. Conversation is better over a beer....but I just think our ("our" being whatever "America" stands for these days.....) enemies think generationally and our defeat will not be conventional or nuclear......
 
I just deleted about two paragraphs of response....probably be lost in translation. Conversation is better over a beer....but I just think our ("our" being whatever "America" stands for these days.....) enemies think generationally and our defeat will not be conventional or nuclear......

Hit me up when you're in DC. :)
 
I’m on the fence with this one. I appreciate movies that shine light on military history but would have preferred the Battle of Leyte or the one that’s made for a movie, the Battle off Samar. Midway has been told and is so well known. I remember years ago when they were making that dumbass Battleship movie. The director, who’s dad is a Navy historian, said in an interview that there were no good historical naval battles left to do a movie on - so he went with that tripe. I lost all hope for ever seeing a movie on either of the two best, in my opinion, pacific theater naval battles.
 
I’m on the fence with this one. I appreciate movies that shine light on military history but would have preferred the Battle of Leyte or the one that’s made for a movie, the Battle off Samar. Midway has been told and is so well known. I remember years ago when they were making that dumbass Battleship movie. The director, who’s dad is a Navy historian, said in an interview that there were no good historical naval battles left to do a movie on - so he went with that tripe. I lost all hope for ever seeing a movie on either of the two best, in my opinion, pacific theater naval battles.

Midway is such a "big one" and the original, even if a good movie with an excellent cast, had pretty lackluster and inaccurate effects even for the early 1970s. This is one where I would not mind a remake by a director who can preserve the dramatic and historical elements of the Heston film and bring the effects up to date. A Midway film, if done right, could be to naval and naval aviation in the Pacific what Saving Private Ryan was to the Normandy landings and for small-unit infantry combat (especially for the version seen in Western Europe).

This looks like it is going to be another Pearl Harbor. Oh well.

There are so many great battles that deserve a similar treatment, though. Just to rail through a few personal favorites that I think could be absolutely great...

-- as mentioned, the Battle off Samar
-- Tsushima Strait (not WWII but obviously significant)
-- the Battle of Jutland
-- the original Sink the Bismarck! could use a similar update
-- heck, you could reach back to something like the Nile or Trafalgar, too
 
The trailer doesn't look any better on the big screen (it was a preview this morning for Spiderman). I'm preparing myself to be disappointed.

I DID recognize Ensign George Gay's scene. :D
 
So I went to this last night...

-- wow, you can definitely tell that was a Roland Emmerich film
-- it unfortunately trended more in the direction of Independence Day with spectacle over character, world-building, and story instead of something more like The Patriot, a historical film of his that I have defended despite its numerous flaws
-- the acting was fine, and especially Woody Harrelson who kills everything he does, but the script was pretty unrelentingly dumb compared to the original
-- Why does everybody in the 1940s have a Brooklyn accent?
-- it had none of the storytelling and narrative tension of the original, a film mostly about naval strategy and two fleets fumbling around a massive ocean trying to find each other and destroy each other as best they could
-- this replaced that tension with special effects... which is not an entirely bad thing, considering the original had poor effects even for the standards of its time
-- everything being CGI made a certain level of unreality about it, however... everything was too bright and felt too light, the whole film came off as something like a particularly well-done videogame cutscene rather than a movie
-- there is pretty much nothing cooler in the world than naval aviation, but this never looked quite real... not like something like Top Gun shot with actual military aircraft can
-- I liked them trying to tell the story from the Japanese perspective as well and liked the Japanese actors speaking Japanese with subtitles, but that side was not developed as well (either in characters or their strategic situation) as the original
-- far too little on Nagumo, in particular
-- one thing that was very different from the emphasis on Japanese atrocities throughout the war, including in China and against captured American sailors
-- I saw a few Chinese studios and financiers were involved in this production, so the airtime dedicated to the China theater of the war makes sense
-- then again, I think the historical case for including that is very strong... WWII was an incredibly large and brutal conflict, and the stories of its largest and most violent theaters, like the Eastern Front and the war in China... are rarely told to Americans, we mostly preferring our greatest hits of American heroism
-- dropping the lame romantic subplot from the 1970s version is appreciated
-- the score was a large downgrade, too... this one sounded like a dollar-store version of the score to Saving Private Ryan, while the original Williams score is a hidden gem

Overall, I give this something like a 6/10 (compared to the original receiving something like an 8/10). This has better if somewhat cartoony effects and I actually appreciate following the Doolittle raiders into China, but the original had a much stronger script and performances from top-to-bottom even if this one is not drug down by the romantic subplot, which would have been better edited out for more historical content and strategy.

It is a solid two hours of entertainment, but pretty forgettable after that.
 
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