Game Thoughts Cincin Loss

[CycloneSpinning]

The biggest gaps still seem to be LB and DL play. Both got better in the second half, but it was too little too late when you dug a 31 point hole before then. I'd expect more portal hunting here in the offseason (again). It's no secret that going 3-3 means you're expecting those guys to be great players who are carrying the load.

I was shocked with how much Cincy kept trying to pass in the second half for no obvious reason. They made the game way more interesting than it needed to be.

I think that was what was most disappointing in the first half. I expected there to be struggles when it came to the corners, but nobody was tackling well. The linebackers were…not good. The safety play was also disappointing. Bad lines of pursuit, getting caught flat footed/looking out of position or unsure where to go, and again just poor tackling.

The debate of playing 4 up front vs. having more help in back is an interesting one. Obviously more pressure on the quarterback makes the job easier for the DBs, but more DBs gives the young corners more help. I would assume we would play to our physical strengths, so they still must have felt 3 linemen was the way to go, but they may have to reconsider.

 

[harimad]

Agree. And in addition, we were told the reason they went to this type of defense was because ISU didn't have the horses to keep up with Texas and OU's of the Big 12 and their air raid offenses. And it allowed them to have the best athletes on the field at one time to give ISU a chance.

With both those schools gone and the Big 12 far from being an air raid conference anymore, is the talent gap between ISU and the remaining Big 12 still that wide?

Ive given a lot of thought the past couple years about what you wrote up here, and I somewhat agree. At the time when we moved to the 3-3, yes we did it to put our best athletes on the field. That’s smart football.

What I don’t like about it is that we’ve stopped innovating and now that alignment literally is our team identity to the point that we recruit DBs heavily to fit that system. Even in seasons where we lose entire position groups to injuries, we double down on the alignment and just insert the backups. We’ve lost that tenet of “put the best players on the field.” Maybe those best players are a 3-4, or a 4-3. Maybe even a 4-2. Last year with all of our injured LBs I would have loved to have seen a 4-2 or even a 4-1.

I really don’t like that we’ve conceded a lot of pounds to the other team when our defense is on the field because we’re so committed to this alignment. We have 200 lb backs mixing it up with 300 lb OL regularly. I think it’s contributed to our injuries the last few years. I think it’s made our run stats worse. I think it’s not the best approach for our team.

 

[rosshm16]

Right, but we run a 3 down linemen front with 3 lb's. Many times we only have 5 guys in the box which is a joke. The Giants and Steelers system usually has 4 LBs and 3 defensive linemen we have NEVER done that.

My point is, if you look at the best college defenses of all time: Miami early 2000s, Ohio State 2010 to now, Bama 2012 to 2020, Georgia - they all use a 4 down front.
The best NFL defenses of all time: Eagles and Chiefs D's last 5 years, Ravens of early 2000s, Bears and Eagles of 80s/90s = also 4 down defensive line fronts.

I don't subscribe to the idea that we are smarter than everyone else (drop 8 and rush nobody). We have had some nice seasons but I think if the goal is a Big 12 championship, this defense will not elevate us there. It is going to be harder to recruit Defensive Ends in this scheme. Who wants to attack a double team on EVERY play.

I'm relatedly tired of the narrative that Cincinnati has some special advantage against us because of Tyson Veidt. Teams play against coaches/coordinators who know their schemes really well all the time, we can't game plan / adjust for this? Don't we have the same advantage?

 

[1SEIACLONE]

Ive given a lot of thought the past couple years about what you wrote up here, and I somewhat agree. At the time when we moved to the 3-3, yes we did it to put our best athletes on the field. That’s smart football.

What I don’t like about it is that we’ve stopped innovating and now that alignment literally is our team identity to the point that we recruit DBs heavily to fit that system. Even in seasons where we lose entire position groups to injuries, we double down on the alignment and just insert the backups. We’ve lost that tenet of “put the best players on the field.” Maybe those best players are a 3-4, or a 4-3. Maybe even a 4-2. Last year with all of our injured LBs I would have loved to have seen a 4-2 or even a 4-1.

I really don’t like that we’ve conceded a lot of pounds to the other team when our defense is on the field because we’re so committed to this alignment. We have 200 lb backs mixing it up with 300 lb OL regularly. I think it’s contributed to our injuries the last few years. I think it’s made our run stats worse. I think it’s not the best approach for our team.

Great post, just because we were the first, means nothing as the formation has evolved while we have not made a change from our original formation of it. Since many teams in the B12 are using it, they are getting used to how to attack it and where the weak points are. We got zero pressure on the QB today, and let's face it, we are one of the worst teams in college football getting to the QB. We allow them just way too much time in the pocket. Now that works well if you are playing a below average QB, but against a guy with a pulse back there they are going to pick you apart.

The defensive staff has known since last Saturday that both corners were going to be gone, and have to do more than plugging in the next guy at that position and thinking we will struggle but we will be fine. On defense you have to take something away, make them one dimensional, we never did that until after the half where by then we had given up 31 points. Where were those changes before that, after the first couple of drivers were we not saying if they beat us through the air, then lets make them prove it, instead of continue to be gashed by the run.

 

[BigLame]

Our blitzing out of our 3-3-5 has been very poor this year. Early on, Neal was our most effectively blitzer, but today I think with the new corners we didn't use him in that role. Then when we did blitz, whoever filled that role did not do very well, nor did the entire defense execute them well. Just recall an early corner blitz from the boundary & Cincy ran a play opposite it & it came nowhere near close enough to affect the play.

 

[superiorcyclone]

I will start off in saying I am excited this team has a 5-1 start. With several games to go everything is still out there for this team including a Big 12 championship game appearance (likely need to win out for that), and likely a fun bowl matchup. Some don't care about that, but I do.

Offense

• The running game looked pretty good, 151 yards rushing is a decent day at the office. I hope Hansen can come back for Colorado.
• Brett Eskildsen continues to look like a deep threat downfield, he catches almost everything and like him a lot.
• We messed up by not getting Gabe Burkle involved today more often.
• When Hansen got hurt, i'd love to see someone else OTHER THAN Sama in short yardage. Dylan Lee, Aiden Flora, somebody else. Abu cannot move a pile or break many tackles

Defense

• Jon Heacock has forgotten more about football than I know. What I am about to say is hopefully not too snarky but just how I feel.
• When Cincinnati has a 4th and 1, we had a 3 down defensive lineman front. What am I missing or is that ridiculous to anyone else? If Cincin had ran the football more often in the second half I honestly feel like that's a blowout. I am so disappointed in our limited use of defensive lineman. How is Dom Orange supposed to be effective when he goes up against 2-3 guys each play? He has to be incredibly frustrated. Why not try a 4 down front of Jace Gilbert (end), Zamir Hawk at Nose, and Dom Orange at Def. Tackle alongside Trey Verdon at D End?
• Ezeguo is proving to me he is not effective at DT against the run, and provides zero threat in pass rush. It's tough to watch.
• I want to see Heacock try something different, we have two corners out for the year. Perhaps the recipe to win is NOT to drop 8 anymore, asking our younger corners to cover for 6 seconds will not bode well for us against CU, TCU, and other teams.. It just won't.
• We need to allot some funds this off season to a stud Defensive End or Linebacker. We just seem weak there when playing good offenses. I would actually be comfortable letting a player or two walk if it meant getting a stud at defensive end.
• The defense right now is 105th nationally in sacks. There are plenty of teams ranked ahead of us in sacks who have played one fewer game (think about that). Our alignment sucks in forcing the QB to feel pressured or make a poor throw.

For those who feel differently, I am happy to welcome a debate with the defensive part of this. Who in the college ranks, or the NFL on defense has won a national championship/super bowl in a defensive front that rushes 3 down linemen (last 40 years)? I cannot think of one. Beyond that, if are walking into recruits' homes who play defensive line, who the hell wants to play in a scheme where its smashing 3 guys against 5 on every play? I think the scheme is starting to impact recruiting. If you don't believe me, who is a good defensive end we have post Will McDonald?

I would like to see another running back that will punish defenders and wear them down as the game goes on. I am not sure we have that guy.

 

[NoCreativity]

Just gotta go for it most of the time while Konrardy is out.

Any idea when he's coming back? This is major issue that is costing us easy points that you just can't be leaving out there.

 

[NazClone]

Rocco missed so many receivers and wasn’t leading them. Hard to catch when the ball is consistently behind the receiver.

 

[madguy30]

Konrardy was 21/28 on FG and like 40/42 XP last year.

He was good, not automatic points though.

I'd say the OL is a bigger issue not being able to get push on a 4th and 1/2 yard situation.

 

[1SEIACLONE]

Konrardy was 21/28 on FG and like 40/42 XP last year.

He was good, not automatic points though.

I'd say the OL is a bigger issue not being able to get push on a 4th and 1/2 yard situation.

We have done a great job this season picking up short yardage, but when the defense jumped into that formation, we should have called off the option and ran towards the boundary. You have a three year starter at QB, he has to see that the play is not there and switch it out to something else.

 

[madguy30]

We have done a great job this season picking up short yardage, but when the defense jumped into that formation, we should have called off the option and ran towards the boundary. You have a three year starter at QB, he has to see that the play is not there and switch it out to something else.

To add on, usually Rocco is imo pretty good at staying low and getting through on those but on that one he looked like the pad level was higher there and there was a delay post-snap.

 

[heitclone]

Rocco made some great plays but he was off on several throws. I'm confident he'll bounce back, I'm not so confident in the run defense. It was bad last year and the injuries at LB were always the go to explanation. It's still bad this year. Iowa and Arkansas St kept Rocco on the sidelines by grinding out drives on the ground and K State hit some big passes on us in the second half, we'd been flirting with disaster on that side of the ball and today it all hit at once.

Probably don't need to win out to get to the CCG but the Arizona St, BYU and TCU games will be huge. If we do win out, the CFP is still realistic w/o winning the league, better to lose early than late.

 

[Pizzapitter]

Guy sitting next to me at the bar.
"You're painfully slow on defense,"
followed by, "some of the poorest tackling I've ever seen."
Not sure how we remedy either, beyond massive paychecks.

 

[NWICY]

The guys didn't quit, regroup and get a W next wk

 

[Pizzapitter]

Re: linebackers. Hi Mike Rose, Willie and Marcel. Miss you!
Could be off but I can't recall a lb interception for a pretty long spell

 

[AuH2O]

Right, but we run a 3 down linemen front with 3 lb's. Many times we only have 5 guys in the box which is a joke. The Giants and Steelers system usually has 4 LBs and 3 defensive linemen we have NEVER done that.

My point is, if you look at the best college defenses of all time: Miami early 2000s, Ohio State 2010 to now, Bama 2012 to 2020, Georgia - they all use a 4 down front.
The best NFL defenses of all time: Eagles and Chiefs D's last 5 years, Ravens of early 2000s, Bears and Eagles of 80s/90s = also 4 down defensive line fronts.

I don't subscribe to the idea that we are smarter than everyone else (drop 8 and rush nobody). We have had some nice seasons but I think if the goal is a Big 12 championship, this defense will not elevate us there. It is going to be harder to recruit Defensive Ends in this scheme. Who wants to attack a double team on EVERY play.

ISU has almost had the star position player much like a LB. So it is not THAT different from a typical 3-4 once the ball is snapped. Agreed that ISUs rushes three a lot, especially in the first halves of games.

But here’s the big picture people need to be reminded of year after year when the ***** about the defense.

Look at the draft. Look at ISUs defensive track record in the draft vs other P4 schools, and look at ISUs defensive performance.

McDonald and Tampa have been outliers. In Heacocks time we’ve had great defenses without almost no NFL draftees.

We don’t do what other people do. And there’s a reason for that. Name a unit on either side of the ball in P4 football that’s gotten more consistent performance out of their talent than Heacock. Maybe he could do it with a traditional 3-4 or 4-3. But maybe the 3-3 stack has been one of the ingredients in being the talent equalizer.

 

[Cyhig]

For as bad as the defense was in the first half, they played amazing the second half. Cincinnati has zero first downs in the second half. Just the one big play.

Encouraged for how they finished.

 

[cyclone1209]

Ive given a lot of thought the past couple years about what you wrote up here, and I somewhat agree. At the time when we moved to the 3-3, yes we did it to put our best athletes on the field. That’s smart football.

What I don’t like about it is that we’ve stopped innovating and now that alignment literally is our team identity to the point that we recruit DBs heavily to fit that system. Even in seasons where we lose entire position groups to injuries, we double down on the alignment and just insert the backups. We’ve lost that tenet of “put the best players on the field.” Maybe those best players are a 3-4, or a 4-3. Maybe even a 4-2. Last year with all of our injured LBs I would have loved to have seen a 4-2 or even a 4-1.

I really don’t like that we’ve conceded a lot of pounds to the other team when our defense is on the field because we’re so committed to this alignment. We have 200 lb backs mixing it up with 300 lb OL regularly. I think it’s contributed to our injuries the last few years. I think it’s made our run stats worse. I think it’s not the best approach for our team.

Amen. I can’t be convinced a 4-3 or even a 4-2-5 isnt a better fit for this defensive roster. Teams gash us in the 3-3 stack and I’m fairly tired of it. It lost us today by being as tough as hot butter in first quarter.

 

[fsanford]

I will start off in saying I am excited this team has a 5-1 start. With several games to go everything is still out there for this team including a Big 12 championship game appearance (likely need to win out for that), and likely a fun bowl matchup. Some don't care about that, but I do.

Offense

• The running game looked pretty good, 151 yards rushing is a decent day at the office. I hope Hansen can come back for Colorado.
• Brett Eskildsen continues to look like a deep threat downfield, he catches almost everything and like him a lot.
• We messed up by not getting Gabe Burkle involved today more often.
• When Hansen got hurt, i'd love to see someone else OTHER THAN Sama in short yardage. Dylan Lee, Aiden Flora, somebody else. Abu cannot move a pile or break many tackles

Defense

• Jon Heacock has forgotten more about football than I know. What I am about to say is hopefully not too snarky but just how I feel.
• When Cincinnati has a 4th and 1, we had a 3 down defensive lineman front. What am I missing or is that ridiculous to anyone else? If Cincin had ran the football more often in the second half I honestly feel like that's a blowout. I am so disappointed in our limited use of defensive lineman. How is Dom Orange supposed to be effective when he goes up against 2-3 guys each play? He has to be incredibly frustrated. Why not try a 4 down front of Jace Gilbert (end), Zamir Hawk at Nose, and Dom Orange at Def. Tackle alongside Trey Verdon at D End?
• Ezeguo is proving to me he is not effective at DT against the run, and provides zero threat in pass rush. It's tough to watch.
• I want to see Heacock try something different, we have two corners out for the year. Perhaps the recipe to win is NOT to drop 8 anymore, asking our younger corners to cover for 6 seconds will not bode well for us against CU, TCU, and other teams.. It just won't.
• We need to allot some funds this off season to a stud Defensive End or Linebacker. We just seem weak there when playing good offenses. I would actually be comfortable letting a player or two walk if it meant getting a stud at defensive end.
• The defense right now is 105th nationally in sacks. There are plenty of teams ranked ahead of us in sacks who have played one fewer game (think about that). Our alignment sucks in forcing the QB to feel pressured or make a poor throw.

For those who feel differently, I am happy to welcome a debate with the defensive part of this. Who in the college ranks, or the NFL on defense has won a national championship/super bowl in a defensive front that rushes 3 down linemen (last 40 years)? I cannot think of one. Beyond that, if are walking into recruits' homes who play defensive line, who the hell wants to play in a scheme where its smashing 3 guys against 5 on every play? I think the scheme is starting to impact recruiting. If you don't believe me, who is a good defensive end we have post Will McDonald?

Patriots ran 3 down during their Superbowl runs.

In 2025 almost half the NFL teams run 3 down lineman.

It should not be a recruiting liability giving how many teams run it in the NFL

The big difference with the NFL the linebackers are really athletic and probably run 250.

Think part of the reason ISU DBs get a shot in the t NFL cuz they work with 3 down lineman system

ISU gave up 7 points in the 2nd half.
The problem is not so much the 3-3-5, it's the game planning to start.

ISU points allowed in the 2nd half is in the top 15 of fewest points allowed amongst 130 teams

If people are critical.of the defensive system explain why it works so well in the 2nd half but struggles from time to time in the first half.

I don't have the answer other than Heacock if give 15 minutes can make crazy adjustments

Today was a simple case of not going crazy with safety help in the 2nd half for the corners

Coaches all over the country come Heacock to learn the 3-3-5 so there must be something desirable

 

[madguy30]

Amen. I can’t be convinced a 4-3 or even a 4-2-5 isnt a better fit for this defensive roster. Teams gash us in the 3-3 stack and I’m fairly tired of it. It lost us today by being as tough as hot butter in first quarter.

Why did it work so well in the 2nd half if it's a bad fit for the players?