Economics

[kingcy]

GMac's buyout isn't the only consideration to make in this whole ordeal. We'd have to hire another coach, right? Do you think we can find a coach for around the same salary as GMac (Greg is roughly $650,000 per year, for comparison sake Lickliter is up closer to $1M per year).

And if this coach you're going to hire is any good then he probably has a job as well, right? So then ISU would more than likely be on the hook for his buyout for however any years would be specified in his contract.

So, find a way to magically talk Greg down to a $1M buyout and you still have a lot of cash you need to find.

Not only that, but you like having a good FB, WBB, VB, Wrestling, etc. program? Those funds used to make all these changes are going to pull many away from upgrades in those programs as well. Do you want to sacrifice all the work of Paul Rhoads? Food for thought...

Yes but paying a coach less than market value really isnt working well for us right now. If something would happen with Mac and with what happened with Morgan their buyouts costs a lot of money, that could have been spent on a coach. Paying a coach off is a **** poor way to manage money. If you hire the cheep guy again you could be going down that same road again, again with nothing to show. Do the search right it will save money in the long run. No more of these fing a guy quick and dont spend any money or put any thought into it. A coach is responsable for his buyout. Mens BB and FB are the only 2 programs that make ISU money. You cannot have your BB program losing money. You have to do what ever it takes to make it make money. Selling seats and advertising is how you make it make money. The more demand there is for both the more money you make. A good coach is well worth the money he is paid.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Yes but paying a coach less than market value really isnt working well for us right now. If something would happen with Mac and with what happened with Morgan their buyouts costs a lot of money, that could have been spent on a coach. Paying a coach off is a **** poor way to manage money. If you hire the cheep guy again you could be going down that same road again, again with nothing to show. Do the search right it will save money in the long run. No more of these fing a guy quick and dont spend any money or put any thought into it. A coach is responsable for his buyout. Mens BB and FB are the only 2 programs that make ISU money. You cannot have your BB program losing money. You have to do what ever it takes to make it make money. Selling seats and advertising is how you make it make money. The more demand there is for both the more money you make. A good coach is well worth the money he is paid.

I agree with you but I don't see us being able to bring a coach in with the amount of money available. If you have the money needed, you are exactly right, however I don' think we have that money. I also think JP learned his lesson on the quick hire. If there is a change after next year I expect that it will be something done very slowly and very deliberately. I don't know, we are just in a tough spot right now. I think everyone would love to see Mac succeed but time seems to have run out for most of the fanbase.

 

[kingcy]

I agree with you but I don't see us being able to bring a coach in with the amount of money available. If you have the money needed, you are exactly right, however I don' think we have that money. I also think JP learned his lesson on the quick hire. If there is a change after next year I expect that it will be something done very slowly and very deliberately. I don't know, we are just in a tough spot right now. I think everyone would love to see Mac succeed but time seems to have run out for most of the fanbase.

Why. We did it before. Orr was one of the highest paid coaches in the country when he came to ISU. LE was the first coach over $1mill. A good coach will make ISU so much money. Just like the last place I worked. They made the cheap hires and it ended up costing them more because of it. The same here. You are spinning your wheels making half *** hires every 4 or 5 years.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Why. We did it before. Orr was one of the highest paid coaches in the country when he came to ISU. LE was the first coach over $1mill. A good coach will make ISU so much money. Just like the last place I worked. They made the cheap hires and it ended up costing them more because of it. The same here. You are spinning your wheels making half *** hires every 4 or 5 years.

Were the economic times the same? Had they just spent a butt load on a practice facility and a butt load on Jack renovations? Was there a bowling in plan in the works down the road? Was tuition skyrocketing?

 

[kingcy]

Were the economic times the same? Had they just spent a butt load on a practice facility and a butt load on Jack renovations? Was there a bowling in plan in the works down the road? Was tuition skyrocketing?

The 80s were not a booming time. There has been plans to bowl the staduim in for 25 years. Tuition going up is nothing new. If you ask me it is ******* stupid to spend a pile of money to bowl a stadium in and then claim you cannot afford another $500,000 a year to hire the right BB coach. The BB team doing good brings so much more exposure to ISU than any ISU football team going to a half *** bowl game. Exposure is money.

 

[khaal53]

I'm not saying to hire a "cheap coach". I'm saying there are a lot of other factors than GMac's buyout. I actually think that GMac's buyout is pretty cheap when you consider he has 5 years left on the contract. I'm fairly certain that right now his buyout would be $2.5M and Lickliter's would be $2.4M (for example).

 

[cyclones500]

I guess I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction of some of the GMac supporters that say "ISU is broke" or "We simply cannot afford a buyout".

I liked your post, because I've seen that similar statement several times. I realize there's truth to that — economics is a reality, and even if an AD thinks changes are necessary it might not be realistic to do it. (And several posts here have mentioned that fact).

But each time I read about how ISU is pretty much stuck because of cost, I think, "I bet if a coaching change was really necessary, they could find a way to make it work." I don't know enough about athletic department budgets and contracts to say "how," so the OP shed a little light on it ... or at least started dialog about it

Other posts brought up additional considerations like overall budget and the ability to afford a quality coach, and the cost-risk analysis as far as program success. Then there's the element of the fan base — if expectations are not met and ticket sales suffer. And none of this even touches on current team and how a coaching change would affect recruiting, team chemistry, etc. (whether positive or negative)

Even if you're someone who thinks GMac must go, you probably wouldn't back change for change's sake. Any decision would have to be well-considered and all of these things come into play. I think the economic argument is a good one, but isn't insurmountable, and it's only one factor in the big picture.

 

[Tre4ISU]

The 80s were not a booming time. There has been plans to bowl the staduim in for 25 years. Tuition going up is nothing new. If you ask me it is ******* stupid to spend a pile of money to bowl a stadium in and then claim you cannot afford another $500,000 a year to hire the right BB coach. The BB team doing good brings so much more exposure to ISU than any ISU football team going to a half *** bowl game. Exposure is money.

Football has the ability to bring much more exposure to a school than basketball. I'm not saying it will happen here, but right now they are ahead and on the right track.

 

[DaddyMac]

How many OTHER coaches are we still paying off?

Any of Gene's assistants? Morgan? McCarney? Hell maybe even LE is still cashing a check. Maybe none, I don't know.

But it seems like buying out contracts, in one way or another, is getting to be a regular line item on the budget and probably sizeable operating cost at ISU.

And yet there will be a few dozen threads come summer/fall wondering why we don't spend $60MM to add 10K in seats to the south endzone, when we don't regularly fill the 47K we already got. :skeptical:

That might be the "knee jerk" reaction some have.

Other than that - if JP really decides to cut GMac loose, and there's the donor support to back him, I don't doubt he'll find the funds. Just keep such expenditures in mind when questioning other projects.

 

[kingcy]

Football has the ability to bring much more exposure to a school than basketball. I'm not saying it will happen here, but right now they are ahead and on the right track.

At ISU. You are going to get 2 mins a week on ISU FB. With BB you can get games on ESPN, you can get highlights 2 times a week, people will watch the NCAA tourny no matter what.

 

[clonetil01]

GMac's buyout isn't the only consideration to make in this whole ordeal. We'd have to hire another coach, right? Do you think we can find a coach for around the same salary as GMac (Greg is roughly $650,000 per year, for comparison sake Lickliter is up closer to $1M per year).

And if this coach you're going to hire is any good then he probably has a job as well, right? So then ISU would more than likely be on the hook for his buyout for however any years would be specified in his contract.

So, find a way to magically talk Greg down to a $1M buyout and you still have a lot of cash you need to find.

Not only that, but you like having a good FB, WBB, VB, Wrestling, etc. program? Those funds used to make all these changes are going to pull many away from upgrades in those programs as well. Do you want to sacrifice all the work of Paul Rhoads? Food for thought...

First off, we should be going after an assitant or another small school coach, thus start them off with a smaller salary. Yea, this didn't work well with GMAC but that doesn't mean it would fail twice. Look where LE came from, and look at CPR, no name with no HC history, just had ties to ISU.

Second, those other sports you name, outside FB, all lose money. FB and MBB are the ONLY moneymakers, so if you can get the MBB team winning or at least generate excitement with a new staff, you can max out season tix, and that will more than make up for a new coach's cost. It's worth the gamble.

 

[khaal53]

First off, we should be going after an assitant or another small school coach, thus start them off with a smaller salary. Yea, this didn't work well with GMAC but that doesn't mean it would fail twice. Look where LE came from, and look at CPR, no name with no HC history, just had ties to ISU.

Second, those other sports you name, outside FB, all lose money. FB and MBB are the ONLY moneymakers, so if you can get the MBB team winning or at least generate excitement with a new staff, you can max out season tix, and that will more than make up for a new coach's cost. It's worth the gamble.

On your first point. I didn't say anything at all about whether this new coach should have head coaching experience or not or how much we should look to spend.

On your second point. You're right about the fact that FB and MBB are the only 2 revenue generating sports at ISU. But that doesn't take away from the point that the AD still needs to spend money on all of the other sports-in fact it substantiates my point further. IF the MBB program continues down the same path there will be a point where, financially, the ISU AD would be better off to eat those costs and try to recoup them through ticket sales. Were not there yet though.

The only point of my post is that there are more costs with a coaching change than GMac's buyout (again: assistants buyout, new coach buyout, new coach salary, and the opportunity cost from using that money in those areas as opposed to FB/WBB/Wrestling/any other sport...).

 

[DaddyMac]

Do our assistants have longer term contracts?

Isn't it typical to have year to year deals for assistants?

 

[khaal53]

Do our assistants have longer term contracts?

Isn't it typical to have year to year deals for assistants?

I don't know specifically, but typically there is a lump sum to divide up amongst the assistants that is far lower than what the HC would receive. That's how it played out when Morgan was fired.

 

[DaddyMac]

I don't know specifically, but typically there is a lump sum to divide up amongst the assistants that is far lower than what the HC would receive. That's how it played out when Morgan was fired.

You mean that in the buyout, there's a lump sum divied between the assistants?

Thx.

 

[khaal53]

You mean that in the buyout, there's a lump sum divied between the assistants?

Thx.

I would presume it is a seperate contract from that of the head coach. It seems like for the assistants under Morgan it was a total sum of $100K-$150K or there abouts that they had to split up.

 

[marothisu]

Anyone that takes in money is rich, because they don't have expenses.

No, but the mere fact they can charge out of state over $15,000 more than in state for the exact same thing is a little suspect isn't it?

This is actually how most college and universities make their money. It really doesn't cost them anything more or much more to take in a student who comes out of state versus an in state one.

 

[Tre4ISU]

No, but the mere fact they can charge out of state over $15,000 more than in state for the exact same thing is a little suspect isn't it?

This is actually how most college and universities make their money. It really doesn't cost them anything more or much more to take in a student who comes out of state versus an in state one.

Not really. A kid that has grown up in the state has indirectly paid into ISU through taxes from parents and so on down the line. Besides that it's pretty similar across all schools that there a significant difference in tuition.

 

[marothisu]

Not really. A kid that has grown up in the state has indirectly paid into ISU through taxes from parents and so on down the line. Besides that it's pretty similar across all schools that there a significant difference in tuition.

Except universities with reciprocity. When I grew up in Minnesota, I didn't pay jack **** to Wisconsin, but you know....I was still eligible for in state tuition at the U of Wisconsin. HMMMMMMMMMM.

And no, if you are a kid and your parents are somehow paying $18,000+/year to the university each year from their taxes, there's something completely wrong.


More of your tax money is going towards things like road projects which cost TONS of money, especially freeways and highways.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Except universities with reciprocity. When I grew up in Minnesota, I didn't pay jack **** to Wisconsin, but you know....I was still eligible for in state tuition at the U of Wisconsin. HMMMMMMMMMM.

And no, if you are a kid and your parents are somehow paying $18,000+/year to the university each year from their taxes, there's something completely wrong.


More of your tax money is going towards things like road projects which cost TONS of money, especially freeways and highways.

Yes, I understand that. That is a partial theory behind it though. Colleges also do that to keep kids in state and not lose them to other schools. It is more of a discount for in-state than an addition to to the tuition of out of state kids.