Darian DeVries

[NoCreativity]

I think it’s less about the exact same situation snd more about how you just never know.

What in the last 6 years makes you think Hoiberg would have continued his success and grown it?

Because we have 5 years of evidence, from 5 star recruits starting to take interest to Hilton being one of the toughest environments, to record crowds, to his team playing better defense every year, getting prime Big Monday slots, finishing 2nd in the Big 12, winning 2 straight tourneys, making at least the round of 32 three straight years, to TJ coming back as an assistant......I could go on and on.

On thr other side you guys have absolutely no evidence he would have fallen off a cliff except, "He stopped recruiting". Well no ****, who wants to commit to a coach that might not even be there when you get on campus. You guys want the best of both worlds, his recruiting fell off and it left Prohm in a hole because everyone knew he wanted to coach in the NBA soon. You cant have it both ways.

 

[jsb]

Because we have 5 years of evidence, from 5 star recruits starting to take interest to Hilton being one of the toughest environments, to record crowds, to his team playing better defense every year, getting prime Big Monday slots, finishing 2nd in the Big 12, winning 2 straight tourneys, making at least the round of 32 three straight years, to TJ coming back as an assistant......I could go on and on.

On thr other side you guys have absolutely no evidence he would have fallen off a cliff except, "He stopped recruiting". Well no ****, who wants to commit to a coach that might not even be there when you get on campus. You guys want the best of both worlds, his recruiting fell off and it left Prohm in a hole because everyone knew he wanted to coach in the NBA soon. You cant have it both ways.

I'm not even talking about Prohm.

The evidence that there might not have been continued success under Hoiberg is that he hasn't been successful since he left.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

recruiting fell off and it left Prohm in a hole because everyone knew he wanted to coach in the NBA soon.

All I know is if Fred would have stayed we would not be where we are right now....that's a gimme. How good, how far, no, go, maybe so.........no one knows. But what I quoted of yours is why Steve gets year 3.....rebuild. Now, JP throws away this season due to protocols, restrictions.......all this talk about a new coach is moot unless Steve himself has decided to move on. Maybe he has, but if he hasn't.....hold on to your pantyhose.

 

[RustShack]

Anyone who thinks Prohm will be coach next year has to be a troll.

 

[NoCreativity]

I'm not even talking about Prohm.

The evidence that there might not have been continued success under Hoiberg is that he hasn't been successful since he left.

Who Hoiberg? I couldn't care less about the NBA but I do know in his second year they gutted his roster. Then he came back to the worst basketball job in the history of Power 5 conferences. So you are judging his perceived future success at Iowa State based on his actual results at the Bulls and Nebraska? That makes no sense.

 

[NoCreativity]

All I know is if Fred would have stayed we would not be where we are right now....that's a gimme. How good, how far, no, go, maybe so.........no one knows. But what I quoted of yours is why Steve gets year 3.....rebuild. Now, JP throws away this season due to protocols, restrictions.......all this talk about a new coach is moot unless Steve himself has decided to move on. Maybe he has, but if he hasn't.....hold on to your pantyhose.

Nobody is that upset about the 17-18 year if you just look at it through a 1 year lens. Its the accumulation of the last 4 years including 17-18 that has everyone wanted Prohm to move on.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Nobody is that upset about the 17-18 year if you just look at it through a 1 year lens. Its the accumulation of the last 4 years including 17-18 that has everyone wanted Prohm to move on.

I'm not arguing, because like I said.....we don't know if this year is a throw away because like another poster said....we've only played 11 games as of the 2nd of February. If JP does take that into consideration that, and like you just said....isn't that upset with 17-18 then that leaves last year as the truly only bad year to lay at his feet. Again, one can argue "underachieve" all they want at 18-19 with "only" 23 wins and conference tourney hardware. He's not going to get fired for that. So I'm just throwing this out there that unless JP is holding this year to his throat or Steve himself has chosen to move on......sort of like what GMAC did......don't be shocked if he is back for at least one more.

 

[Urbandale2013]

I'm not arguing, because like I said.....we don't know if this year is a throw away because like another poster said....we've only played 11 games as of the 2nd of February. If JP does take that into consideration that, and like you just said....isn't that upset with 17-18 then that leaves last year as the truly only bad year to lay at his feet. Again, one can argue "underachieve" all they want at 18-19 with "only" 23 wins and conference tourney hardware. He's not going to get fired for that. So I'm just throwing this out there that unless JP is holding this year to his throat or Steve himself has chosen to move on......sort of like what GMAC did......don't be shocked if he is back for at least one more.

I’m not going to be totally shocked if he is back next year but if he is then JP is risking his job. This discussion has been had before but for all the good JP has done if he can’t manage coaches or delegate managing coaches to someone who can then that is a problem. I want to keep JP forever right now but if he doesn’t recognize where the basketball program is then that would be a serious deficiency in his job performance. The bad performance hurts enough but the financial costs are worse. 3/4 bottom two finishes is just not ok even with Covid. For me Prohm has to win at least 3 more games this year to have a chance to come back.

 

[BCClone]

One issue that could arise, due to Covid, will several of the coaches not be available? Some may not want to gamble with a new job, some may have players wanting to use the extra year and believe they can really help themselves with the team they would have for next year. This year just sucks all the way around for everything.

 

[swiacy]

DD has done a wonderful job at Drake so I am not here to denigrate his performance. But the Valley is not a conference that reeks of teams that would be competitive in a P5 conference. It would be great to see the Bulldogs continue their winning formula, the next 10 games will tell the story as the remaining schedule is the hardest part of the season. I am not a fan of the idea that former assistant coaches at ISU are the answer. I prefer a head coach at a D1 school who has had success. Someone like Travis Ford who is having success at SLU and got a raw deal at OSU in my view. He is a very good recruiter, still has the needed energy and would take a look at another P5 chance I would guess. JP was at SLU by the way.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

3/4 bottom two finishes is just not ok even with Covid.

Well that was my entire point in my previous and other posts. If you throw away this year......that's 2/3. If you give him a year to rebuild after the Monte class.....that's 1/2. And a coach is allowed at least one rebuilding year, right? That's one bad year....last year. Now I don't know what is rolling around in JP's head anymore than you. Like I said......maybe Steve has decided on his own to move on. Maybe a new coach has already been chosen and JP, Steve and the new hire have worked together for a smooth transition, already spoken to current players and recruits and everything is good. It would make sense and be a heck of a lot better for ISU than how Fred left. I haven't seen current recruits back out and open up their recruiting. Or maybe Steve is entirely focused to finish the best they can this year and expecting to make it or break it next year. I don't know.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

DD has done a wonderful job at Drake so I am not here to denigrate his performance. But the Valley is not a conference that reeks of teams that would be competitive in a P5 conference. It would be great to see the Bulldogs continue their winning formula, the next 10 games will tell the story as the remaining schedule is the hardest part of the season. I am not a fan of the idea that former assistant coaches at ISU are the answer. I prefer a head coach at a D1 school who has had success. Someone like Travis Ford who is having success at SLU and got a raw deal at OSU in my view. He is a very good recruiter, still has the needed energy and would take a look at another P5 chance I would guess. JP was at SLU by the way.

Never thought of Ford. And you are right about the raw deal. Hmmmm. I guess if Steve is leaving that would be worth a good hard look.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Well that was my entire point in my previous and other posts. If you throw away this year......that's 2/3. If you give him a year to rebuild after the Monte class.....that's 1/2. And a coach is allowed at least one rebuilding year, right? That's one bad year....last year. Now I don't know what is rolling around in JP's head anymore than you. Like I said......maybe Steve has decided on his own to move on. Maybe a new coach has already been chosen and JP, Steve and the new hire have worked together for a smooth transition, already spoken to current players and recruits and everything is good. It would make sense and be a heck of a lot better ISU than how Fred left. I haven't seen current recruits back out open up their recruiting. Or maybe Steve is entirely focused to finish the best they can this year and expecting to make it or break it next year. I don't know.

The thing is they don’t just get thrown out they get taken in context. I explained it in another post but say this year hurts your approval 20%. Because it’s Covid it hurts it only 10%. It doesn’t just erase the year it just dampens the effect.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

The thing is they don’t just get thrown out they get taken in context. I explained it in another post but say this year hurts your approval 20%. Because it’s Covid it hurts it only 10%. It doesn’t just erase the year it just dampens the effect.

I understand, I just don't know if JP splits hairs like we do.

 

[usedcarguy]

I’m not going to be totally shocked if he is back next year but if he is then JP is risking his job. This discussion has been had before but for all the good JP has done if he can’t manage coaches or delegate managing coaches to someone who can then that is a problem. I want to keep JP forever right now but if he doesn’t recognize where the basketball program is then that would be a serious deficiency in his job performance. The bad performance hurts enough but the financial costs are worse. 3/4 bottom two finishes is just not ok even with Covid. For me Prohm has to win at least 3 more games this year to have a chance to come back.

Pure hyperbole. Unless JP starts drinking and partying with co-eds like Eustachy, he is not risking his job. Yes, the BB program is important, but not nearly as much so since the resurgence of FB. As for his ability to assess the state of a program and make tough decisions, he did it years ago with arguably the two most beloved FB coaches in ISU history. Comparatively speaking, firing Prohm would be a piece of cake.

I'm going to assume JP knows the things that we on the outside do not. Most importantly, there are two things. One, do the players respect the coach and will they play hard for him. Two, are the players he's recruiting of the character to put in the work necessary to be successful. He's been as good if not a better recruiter than Hoiberg...at least talentwise. Those will be the two primary determining factors that influence his decision.

Are there things Prohm could have done better? I would assume so. But if you talk to the coach who just accomplished the supposedly impossible task of winning the Fiesta Bowl, he'll be the first to tell you that he made some mistakes along the way that hurt our success. He eventually figured some stuff out and is still learning. Prohm seems to have the same humility. Hopefully he is learning as well. My bet is that those lessons are much slower learned when you inherit two loaded rosters. I'm going to assume JP has been having plenty of conversations with him since day one and has a far better grasp than a bunch of message board users. I'll trust whatever he decides. That's what we pay him for.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Are there things Prohm could have done better? I would assume so. But if you talk to the coach who just accomplished the supposedly impossible task of winning the Fiesta Bowl, he'll be the first to tell you that he made some mistakes along the way that hurt our success. He eventually figured some stuff out and is still learning. Prohm seems to have the same humility. Hopefully he is learning as well. My bet is that those lessons are much slower learned when you inherit two loaded rosters. I'm going to assume JP has been having plenty of conversations with him since day one and has a far better grasp than a bunch of message board users. I'll trust whatever he decides. That's what we pay him for.

Prohm has shown no humility and ability to learn from his mistakes. That’s why we are where we are. It continues to be the same mistakes. We always here about we need to be better on defense yet we still suck at defense. Prohm has lost the fan base and can’t recover.

 

[jsb]

Prohm has shown no humility and ability to learn from his mistakes. That’s why we are where we are. It continues to be the same mistakes. We always here about we need to be better on defense yet we still suck at defense. Prohm has lost the fan base and can’t recover.

I think you don't understand the meaning of humility. I'm not arguing that he doesn't know how to coach and that's the most important thing.

But he shows plenty of humility. Frankly to a fault.

 

[Tornado man]

I'm going to assume JP has been having plenty of conversations with him since day one and has a far better grasp than a bunch of message board users. I'll trust whatever he decides. That's what we pay him for.

If by "far better grasp" you mean in evaluating Prohm's coaching ability? No I don't agree. Pollard can evaluate in terms of wins and losses, and team culture, but not knowledge of basketball. He doesn't possess it.
He hired Prohm over others chiefly because he wanted someone non-authoritative, and laid back like Fred, who wouldn't get in the face of players or demand full defensive effort. In other words, nothing like Floyd or Eustachy.
Pollard didn't want the holdover stars rebelling and leaving. He wanted continuity in terms of style.
And here we are.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Prohm has lost the fan base and can’t recover.

You act as if Prohm is bacterial pneumonia brought on by the flu. Well then let's pray to everything good he doesn't come back and win some games, right? Because we wouldn't those same people seeping back into Hilton exposing them once again to the dreaded Prohm plague.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

He hired Prohm over others chiefly because he wanted someone non-authoritative, and laid back like Fred, who wouldn't get in the face of players or demand full defensive effort. In other words, nothing like Floyd or Eustachy.

If that was the case Wayne Morgan would have never been canned.