Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[WhoISthis]

I am as well...and which Big 12 members said no to the Pac12 in this climate...and why??

Nearly all of them.

No Big 12 member worth wanting is going to go to the failing Pac12 to be a satellite. Adding a couple far flung Big 12 schools isn’t keeping USC and others.

If you’re KU, why end the chance of a BIG/SEC invite to go to what will be the Big 12 of the west? If KU isn’t good enough to get a BIG or SEC invite, it’s not good enough to save the Pac12 (as it exists today). That’s really banking on USC not saying **** this and going to the SEC.

Make the Pac12 leftovers come to you. If they don’t lose anyone, you’ll always be able to join.

The Pac12 is in real trouble unless they sell the network, gain large Midwest and south markets,

 

[StPaulCyclone]

The one thing that I find amusing is how much **** is being slung at several PAC programs for not being worthy considerations, or 'dead weight' when I'd bet most of them would argue, some correctly, that their school is better than ours. We sign a few schools who've been begging at the door for years with no shot and suddenly we're looking down on people.

edit -
Hell, it's more silly than I thought. Not one of the schools mentioned has fewer than twice as many 8+ win seasons than ISU and that's only over 40 years. Twice as many. Some have 3 or 4 times as many. Recency bias is strong here but remember our basketball team is winless if we're only talking last year!

Makes sense, but if the best 2-4 brands leave the P12; their “irate eight” will be is worse shape with lower viewership than the B8 and games “after dark”.

 

[Acylum]

Watching the UCF/ Cincy game has the expansion thing kinda growing on me. Still think we’re screwed financially though.

 

[AuH2O]

Nearly all of them.

No Big 12 member worth wanting is going to go to the failing Pac12 to be a satellite. Adding a couple far flung Big 12 schools isn’t keeping USC and others.

If you’re KU, why end the chance of a BIG/SEC invite to go to what will be the Big 12 of the west? If KU isn’t good enough to get a BIG or SEC invite, it’s not good enough to save the Pac12 (as it exists today).

Make the Pac12 leftovers come to you. If they don’t lose anyone, you’ll always be able to join.

The Pac12 is in real trouble unless they sell the network, gain large Midwest and south markets,

What do think are most likely options for PAC network (or something like it) on the next deal?

 

[cyfan92]

Ku has not played Missouri since they departed for the SEC. Ku breaking from the B12 would not be met with thanks from lil bro(s). Cincinnati and Houston have superior basketball traditions to all P12 members, sans UCLA.

Phil Knight and Oregon would like to talk

 

[MeanDean]

Nearly all of them.

No Big 12 member worth wanting is going to go to the failing Pac12 to be a satellite. Adding a couple far flung Big 12 schools isn’t keeping USC and others.

If you’re KU, why end the chance of a BIG/SEC invite to go to what will be the Big 12 of the west? If KU isn’t good enough to get a BIG or SEC invite, it’s not good enough to save the Pac12 (as it exists today).

Make the Pac12 leftovers come to you. If they don’t lose anyone, you’ll always be able to join.

The Pac12 is in real trouble unless they sell the network, gain large Midwest and south markets,

The SEC to go after KU? I've read that several times on different threads.

I've read a lot of back and forth about GaTech potential to the B1G. As a buffer and to infiltrate, to some extent, SEC country. There are probably a million reasons why, but wouldn't ISU be the same deal for the SEC to infiltrate B1G country in the future? Isn't ISU a bigger fan base than GaTech? Granted, Iowa is not a population giant like Georgia but we also don't compete against the Braves, Falcons, and Hawks (well not those Hawks).

Not that I expect an SEC invite anytime soon but why isn't this a thing? We have no "value" yes, I know. We are contiguous with Missouri so we'd be less on an island than we are now.

Obviously a B1G invite is hugely preferred...

 

[WhoISthis]

What do think are most likely options for PAC network (or something like it) on the next deal?

Their new commissioner gives them a chance Imo. They need to do whatever it takes to get leverage, and that ass hat Scott was not it.

Ive obviously pushed the BIG annexing the Pac12’s best 8 or 9, as a means to get a leveraged (Murdoch/Fox) conference network. I think all things equal they rather add 6 ACC and keep the Pac12 survivable as-is (assuming the SEC would not pull USC). But maybe the Alliance results BIG in brass helping the Pac12 get a buyer (potentially bundling the two).

I think two bundled conference networks is interesting. What if they still added the Pac12 top 8, plus KU and ISU, with the now Fox backed Pac12 network bundled with the Big 10 side and BTN. Make that huge footprint buy both. Depends on the elasticity- lose some but maybe double up on way more. Of course I’m biased because this allows a path for ISU to not be prohibitive due to Iowa

 

[WhoISthis]

The SEC to go after KU? I've read that several times on different threads.

I've read a lot of back and forth about GaTech potential to the B1G. As a buffer and to infiltrate, to some extent, SEC country. There are probably a million reasons why, but wouldn't ISU be the same deal for the SEC to infiltrate B1G country in the future? Isn't ISU a bigger fan base than GaTech? Granted, Iowa is not a population giant like Georgia but we also don't compete against the Braves, Falcons, and Hawks (well not those Hawks).

Not that I expect an SEC invite anytime soon but why isn't this a thing? We have no "value" yes, I know. We are contiguous with Missouri so we'd be less on an island than we are now.

Obviously a B1G invite is hugely preferred...

I don’t see it similar at all. The state of iowa is a low population edge state, little in terms of recruits. A bridge to? Nebraska? Does the SEC even know iowa is a state?

Georgia is much larger, growing, way more recruits, and culturally the heart of the south. If you want to make a foothold in the south, having a presence in Atlanta goes a long ways. It would also be a bridge to Florida for the BIG.

 

[Clone83]

The SEC to go after KU? I've read that several times on different threads.

I've read a lot of back and forth about GaTech potential to the B1G. As a buffer and to infiltrate, to some extent, SEC country. There are probably a million reasons why, but wouldn't ISU be the same deal for the SEC to infiltrate B1G country in the future? Isn't ISU a bigger fan base than GaTech? Granted, Iowa is not a population giant like Georgia but we also don't compete against the Braves, Falcons, and Hawks (well not those Hawks).

Not that I expect an SEC invite anytime soon but why isn't this a thing? We have no "value" yes, I know. We are contiguous with Missouri so we'd be less on an island than we are now.

Obviously a B1G invite is hugely preferred...

I agree.

I would be fine with the SEC, though like you I prefer the B1G.

What I don’t like about the B1G is it seems because of ISU’s location (and UI already in state) — is that it might be easy to be taken for granted — that the B1G feels it can always pick ISU, that it is easy for them to pick last (if they do at all). I’m not sure how realistic the SEC is, but that is kind of a wrinkle. It is also consistent with ISU to this point always being in a different conference.

ISU is also located in the largest, fastest-growing part of the state, with greater long-term growth potential.

 

[BCClone]

While we're all talking hypotheticals, something I don't know in general but wonder -- are Cal and Stanford tied at the hip in any way? Or are most of the Pac couplets mainly a result of simply being the same league forever (in addition to the handy geographic link)?

Cal and UCLA are.

 

[CascadeClone]

Maybe this is how we get to a P4. We've been worried about the Big12 losing out somehow on playoff access, being demoted in some way. What if Pac loses big brands to B1G, and the Big12 and Pac12 leftovers merge to be the fourth P4? Everyone will b!tch how it is the weakest of the conferences, but it will be damn near everything west of the Mississippi and there will always be some quality teams every year. Talk about protected by geography...

 

[WhoISthis]

Maybe this is how we get to a P4. We've been worried about the Big12 losing out somehow on playoff access, being demoted in some way. What if Pac loses big brands to B1G, and the Big12 and Pac12 leftovers merge to be the fourth P4? Everyone will b!tch how it is the weakest of the conferences, but it will be damn near everything west of the Mississippi and there will always be some quality teams every year. Talk about protected by geography...

P3 once the best of the ACC leave to get theirs.

 

[werdnamanhill]

I'm still not convinced the PAC is as weak as you all think it is. New commish, geography, etc. They are in a solid place. As long as this "alliance" exists, they are fine.

 

[Win5002]

Maybe this is how we get to a P4. We've been worried about the Big12 losing out somehow on playoff access, being demoted in some way. What if Pac loses big brands to B1G, and the Big12 and Pac12 leftovers merge to be the fourth P4? Everyone will b!tch how it is the weakest of the conferences, but it will be damn near everything west of the Mississippi and there will always be some quality teams every year. Talk about protected by geography...

it's possible

 

[Win5002]

Their new commissioner gives them a chance Imo. They need to do whatever it takes to get leverage, and that ass hat Scott was not it.

Ive obviously pushed the BIG annexing the Pac12’s best 8 or 9, as a means to get a leveraged (Murdoch/Fox) conference network. I think all things equal they rather add 6 ACC and keep the Pac12 survivable as-is (assuming the SEC would not pull USC). But maybe the Alliance results BIG in brass helping the Pac12 get a buyer (potentially bundling the two).

I think two bundled conference networks is interesting. What if they still added the Pac12 top 8, plus KU and ISU, with the now Fox backed Pac12 network bundled with the Big 10 side and BTN. Make that huge footprint buy both. Depends on the elasticity- lose some but maybe double up on way more. Of course I’m biased because this allows a path for ISU to not be prohibitive due to Iowa

The PACs problems are not all due to Larry Scott and the B1G is not taking more than 6 PAC teams and that's at most and one of those is probably Colorado, maybe only 4 or 5.

Look at USC/ Stanford ratings last week. There is no way the B1G will take 9 PAC schools.

 

[AuH2O]

I'm still not convinced the PAC is as weak as you all think it is. New commish, geography, etc. They are in a solid place. As long as this "alliance" exists, they are fine.

Based on what? The problem is people think their TV deal sucks because Scott sucked and he negotiated a bad deal. No, their media deal sucks because people don’t watch their games.

 

[WhoISthis]

The PACs problems are not all due to Larry Scott and the B1G is not taking more than 6 PAC teams and that's at most and one of those is probably Colorado, maybe only 4 or 5.

Look at USC/ Stanford ratings last week. There is no way the B1G will take 9 PAC schools.

All? Of course not, but he’s the biggest reason they had no partner with equity as incentive to like Fox with the big. The Alliance and the new commissioner stand a much better chance

unequal revenue sharing and in market (Rutgers)is preferable over destroying the Pac12

 

[WhoISthis]

Based on what? The problem is people think their TV deal sucks because Scott sucked and he negotiated a bad deal. No, their media deal sucks because people don’t watch their games.

People think that?
I’ve not rad that, but when you’re a conference of poor ratings , large cities, and a conference network, you need to get high penetration. Scott and the Pac12 executed that horribly. Rutge

 

[CyCrazy]

I'm still not convinced the PAC is as weak as you all think it is. New commish, geography, etc. They are in a solid place. As long as this "alliance" exists, they are fine.

Pac 12 fans dont care about the Pac 12.

 

[werdnamanhill]

Pac 12 fans dont care about the Pac 12.

Say only 30% of fans of UCLA, Cal, Stanford, and USC actually care. Thats a ton of people still, people are forgetting the population of California