MLB: Are advanced metrics ruining baseball?

[jbindm]

I gotcha. Yeah the NBA is killing it. And I understand the NBA and MLB aren't apples to apples. MLB won't be able to just copy whatever NBA is doing but jesus, MLB can't find their ass with both hands.

Agreed. I don't really even follow baseball but I have enough friends who are fans to know that the league has a serious problem with blackout rules that prevent people from watching games they actually want to see. Which is nuts. The NFL goes above and beyond to jam their product down our throats no matter how ****** the game might be. And then you have baseball fans having to troubleshoot or resort to illegal streams just to watch their team play.

My main gripe would probably be the All Star game. Why on earth are you using an exhibition game to determine something like home field advantage for the World Series? More often than not it's decided by a guy who won't even be playing in the postseason. Asinine.

 

[thatguy]

I'll admit right away that my perspective is very much pro-analytics, so it is an admittedly biased point of view. But I don't really get how metrics can be "ruining the game." Are there really people who have stopped watching games on ESPN because they include OPS in a player's stat line?

As for the game basically being a computer simulation, I'd press back strongly on that, because baseball has a ridiculous amount of uncertainty and luck associated with it. Who wins an individual game is entirely up for grabs. Statistics shouldn't reduce the enjoyment coming from an individual game.

And for the focus on strikeouts and home runs, there is certainly room to appreciate the game from that perspective. Can you not appreciate a fantastic slider from a pitcher or a 102 MPH fastball to strike someone out? Or a home run that cleared the fence by 30 feet?

102 mph loses its shock value when every guy coming out of every bullpen is doing it. Strike Outs are boring (also fascist h/t Crash Davis). I have stopped watching Sunday Night Baseball and any games not affiliated with a team I cheer for because strike outs ARE SO BORING and that is what the game has become. Most teams are trying to play 6 inning games now, because they know their 7,8,9 inning guys are gonna come in and strike out 9 guys. Hitting behind runners, stealing second, all things that you used to do to try and scratch to get a run late in the game are gone because everyone is waiting on a 3 run HR. Yes a HR that clears the fence by 30 ft is fun the one time a game that happens. What the HR/K revolution has done, for the other 8 innings where you don't get a huge HR, has taken all the small ball away, which is much more appealing then watching a pitcher and catcher play catch for 3 hours.

Also, baseball is a regional game, because of the amounts of games. So local TV ratings and attendance is at an all time high, but ya the ratings in Chicago are down for an Angels/Red Sox game because one, the Cubs/Sox fans are watching their game and two, who has that much time to put into multiple teams every night? Baseball isn't set up well for TV like football is. Its why the TV product isn't as great as being there. I would much rather watch a football game at home then at the stadium, as opposed to a baseball game where you see all the moving parts that go into each and every pitch. (also, former catcher and coach here, so I take allot of pride in all the moving parts before each and every pitch lol!)

 

[cyfanatic13]

Agreed. I don't really even follow baseball but I have enough friends who are fans to know that the league has a serious problem with blackout rules that prevent people from watching games they actually want to see. Which is nuts. The NFL goes above and beyond to jam their product down our throats no matter how ****** the game might be. And then you have baseball fans having to troubleshoot or resort to illegal streams just to watch their team play.

My main gripe would probably be the All Star game. Why on earth are you using an exhibition game to determine something like home field advantage for the World Series? More often than not it's decided by a guy who won't even be playing in the postseason. Asinine.

Your bottom point isn't a thing anymore. They did away with that starting in the 2017 season

 

[Cyclone.TV]

I think if Trout played on a better team he'd probably be more popular. Dude's only been in one postseason in his career. Hard to market someone when they are on an irrelevant team

I think it’s more the market he plays in rather than the team. His games start at 10pm east coast.

 

[jbindm]

Your bottom point isn't a thing anymore. They did away with that starting in the 2017 season

I stand corrected. Thanks!

 

[LivntheCyLife]

Yeah, I like the advanced stats but don't care for the way it has skewed the game towards taking more pitches, a focus on home runs and strikeouts, and fewer stolen bases and hit and runs.

And I'm fine with shifting in theory but it's been very unfair to left-handed hitters with it being easier to shift against them.

I also don't care for the hard core stat-heads who act like you should never use RBIs or pitcher wins. If I catch a game, I still might tell my co-worker who got the game-winning hit or who the winning pitcher was even though it may be mostly luck.

I still enjoy baseball but definitely follow it differently than other sports. It's background noise to my summer by streaming games and then something to attend while catching up with a friend.

 

[cyclone101]

I'm with ya. A bigger MLB problem to me is their blackout rules. I would probably have MLB TV in a heartbeat if I could watch Cubs games on there. Instead I'll just continue to stream every game I have to on Reddit and deal with ****** quality from time to time

Agreed. I don't really even follow baseball but I have enough friends who are fans to know that the league has a serious problem with blackout rules that prevent people from watching games they actually want to see. Which is nuts. The NFL goes above and beyond to jam their product down our throats no matter how ****** the game might be. And then you have baseball fans having to troubleshoot or resort to illegal streams just to watch their team play.

My main gripe would probably be the All Star game. Why on earth are you using an exhibition game to determine something like home field advantage for the World Series? More often than not it's decided by a guy who won't even be playing in the postseason. Asinine.

Absolutely agree with the blackouts. I'm pulling streams from reddit all season long. If MLB wasn't such a douche about blackouts I'd buy their service. Until then, they can shove it.

 

[MartyFine]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot as a casual baseball fan who is having a hard time caring any more. I realize the timing of this is odd during the off-season but are advanced metrics and analytics ruining the game? I am by no means a purist, but when ESPN now shows OPS before batting average on their stat line you know things are screwy. Apparently the most important thing to determining a player’s value is their WAR which is a completely theoretical stat. Average, rbi and home runs used to be the holy trinity of stats, with OBP and RISP also being good indicators of success but it seems like the numbers are being twisted around so much that awful players like Adam Dunn had a 10+ year career.

I’m not saying this is the only reason for the decline of baseball (god awful pace, less home grown, elite talent) but it sure is making it a lot less accessible.

Everyone tries to copy each other which is part of the problem. The market undervalues contact hitters, so I don't understand why teams that stink don't try to exploit that market inefficiency.

I agree on WAR to a certain extent, especially when comparing great players. It is a useless tool for that purpose as everyone can see that they are great. WAR (similar to the IQ test) was designed to help identify players that need a little extra help (or to be replaced by a cheaper guy in Triple-A).

No worries as we're facing another strike in a couple years anyway...

 

[stormchaser2014]

He has to want it. As I understand it Mike Trout (assuming that's who you're talking about) just doesn't care much about his brand.

I don't think advanced metrics are hurting baseball. Like another poster said, if someone is a baseball fan they're not going to be driven away by talking heads yammering on about WAR and WIP and whatever else.

The issue is in the marketing and accessibility of the game. MLB does not make much of an effort to be fan and viewer friendly. And it's just my opinion, but their regular season is entirely too long. The NBA suffers from the same problem.

All you need to watch football is an antenna, because most if not all the games are on the local networks. To watch MLB and NBA, you need to have a cable/satellite/streaming service. To use MLB.tv, you need to be in a different, non-bordering state as your team. That's their main problem. If I'm in Iowa, I still can't watch Brewers games.

I couldn't care less about the advanced stats either. I know what they are, but most people don't. Those metrics are for the talking heads. As for ruining baseball, I don't think so, and neither is the shift

Call me crazy, but I'd rather go to a 5 and half hour, 15 inning game than a 3 hr football game.

 

[cyfanatic13]

I think it’s more the market he plays in rather than the team. His games start at 10pm east coast.

Yes and no, IMO. If he played for the Dodgers I think he'd be a much bigger star. That's probably it out there though, maybe the Giants with their success the past decade

 

[IASTATE07]

Things that ruin baseball for me is the shift and unwritten rules. I understand the shift, but do not understand the unwillingness of players to make the other team pay for it. Player on the Orioles bunted down the third baseline when they were down 3 or 4 runs late in the game. After the game the Twins players were freaking out what the Orioles player did.

 

[kentkel]

Baseball has always been my favorite professional sport to watch and follow. I'm a life-long Brewers fan, so there will be some obvious bias in what I say next. The only thing that I haven't liked about pro baseball is the large discrepancy in team payrolls. The large-market, rich teams generally have a huge advantage in buying the high-dollar players (and these are often the better players in the league). Advanced metrics have, to some extent, allowed small market teams to compete with the NYs and LAs of the league, so I am a fan of its use!

 

[Cyclone.TV]

Yes and no, IMO. If he played for the Dodgers I think he'd be a much bigger star. That's probably it out there though, maybe the Giants with their success the past decade

I liken it to Harper kinda. He’s a big star but the team is meh. But you are right, he’d be much bigger in LA, although Kershaw would be much bigger in Boston or NY.

 

[thatguy]

Yes and no, IMO. If he played for the Dodgers I think he'd be a much bigger star. That's probably it out there though, maybe the Giants with their success the past decade

I work in and around MLB licensing. MLB has tried to market Mike for awhile and he has no interest in his "brand" whatsoever. Think they leaked a story to the ringer or someone last year about it.

To get the young people involved, they need to shorten the game (limit the number of pitching changes) and bring back the drama, as well as be better about streaming and social media etc. It doesn't help that most baseball players are good old boys with barely a high school education that just want to hunt and fish and aren't blessed with what we call, an electric personality.

 

[jbindm]

Things that ruin baseball for me is the shift and unwritten rules. I understand the shift, but do not understand the unwillingness of players to make the other team pay for it. Player on the Orioles bunted down the third baseline when they were down 3 or 4 runs late in the game. After the game the Twins players were freaking out what the Orioles player did.

Oh yeah, the unwritten rules are some childish nonsense too. It's a never ending cycle of teams throwing at each other because of some garbage "unwritten rules". Grow up.

 

[cyfanatic13]

Baseball has always been my favorite professional sport to watch and follow. I'm a life-long Brewers fan, so there will be some obvious bias in what I say next. The only thing that I haven't liked about pro baseball is the large discrepancy in team payrolls. The large-market, rich teams generally have a huge advantage in buying the high-dollar players (and these are often the better players in the league). Advanced metrics have, to some extent, allowed small market teams to compete with the NYs and LAs of the league, so I am a fan of its use!

I'm a Cubs fan and I don't like the large gap. Baseball as a whole would be better if every team was on the same playing field but I understand that it'll never be that way

 

[jbindm]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather go to a 5 and half hour, 15 inning game than a 3 hr football game.

I can agree with this. Baseball is a better live sport than football. I guess maybe that's a hot take but I think it's easier to take in a baseball game from the stands than football is. Calmer crowds too, which appeals to me more and more as I ease into middle age.

 

[IASTATE07]

Another thing that bothers me is pitchers batting. Both leagues should play by the same rules.

 

[Jmarsh13]

3 true outcomes (HR, K, BB) has lead to a lot less balls in play and action in the game. Add in a lack of hit and run / base stealing as they wait for the HR, more pitching changes, pitchers and batters taking time between pitches, etc... has really slowed the pace of play down.

 

[cyclone101]

Another thing that bothers me is pitchers batting. Both leagues should play by the same rules.

Pitchers batting for themselves makes the game so much more interesting as far as strategy goes and I wish AL did it that way. But that brings us back to getting interest from new fans. How many people new to baseball want to watch Bartolo Colon swing and miss at 3 fastballs right down the ****?