NBA: *** 2024 NBA thread ***

[deadeyededric]

Although he did get hurt in game 5 and was playing through it.

Dont doubt it. Isn't everyone kind of banged up now. The people here want him to be considered elite. Well Jordan played with the flu,etc.... He didn't show up in game 5. Stars at hurt and win games hurt. You know this. Hell I love watching the guy play but he isn't quite there yet in terms of being elite.

 

[jsb]

Dont doubt it. Isn't everyone kind of banged up now. The people here want him to be considered elite. Well Jordan played with the flu,etc.... He didn't show up in game 5. Stars at hurt and win games hurt. You know this. Hell I love watching the guy play but he isn't quite there yet in terms of being elite.

So elite players never have bad games? Ever?

That's where your argument is so ******* dumb. If you say Jordan is better than Tyrese, no one would disagree with you. But you think he doesn't deserve to be called elite because he had a bad game. That's ******* stupid. I dare to say Mahomes has had a bad game. In fact, wasn't he dog **** in the Super Bowl this year?

 

[deadeyededric]

You’re being weird. I don’t contest that. I’m just pointing out that OKC wasn’t some unstoppable force in the finals. You don’t have to look much further than the fact that there is just as much press coverage of Halliburton’s injury as there is OKC’s victory. That injury is stealing from their moment…and probably rightly so. If they had won with the Pacers at full strength (also a very possible outcome), everything would be about how great OKC is.

I was more than commentary about Indys grit the entire playoffs. I never once said they didn't belong. The better team with the better players won though.

 

[HFCS]

So elite players never have bad games? Ever?

That's where your argument is so ******* dumb. If you say Jordan is better than Tyrese, no one would disagree with you. But you think he doesn't deserve to be called elite because he had a bad game. That's ******* stupid. I dare to say Mahomes has had a bad game. In fact, wasn't he dog **** in the Super Bowl this year?

His lover just had an 8 turnover game in a loss two games ago. Not elite I guess.

He'd seem less evil if he'd forget about game 5 where Tyrese was first seriously injured.

 

[deadeyededric]

Indy will be there again ffs. Hali is a great player. Hes a few tweeks to his game away from being a top 5 guy let alone 10.

 

[deadeyededric]

So elite players never have bad games? Ever?

That's where your argument is so ******* dumb. If you say Jordan is better than Tyrese, no one would disagree with you. But you think he doesn't deserve to be called elite because he had a bad game. That's ******* stupid. I dare to say Mahomes has had a bad game. In fact, wasn't he dog **** in the Super Bowl this year?

Players that want to be considered elite dont score 4 points in game 5. Thats not even showing up. He was the 3rd best player on the court every night. If anyone was underappreciated in the series it was Jalen Williams. That guy is a ******* stud.

 

[deadeyededric]

The "elite" **** is so dumb. Hali is a unique basketball player that makes the Pacers and their style of play run. The Pacers wouldn't be what they are if guys were playing iso ball, and you saw that in the 2nd half last night. They thrive on ball movement and pace. What makes Hali so great is that he's going to make the right play no matter what. If the right play is a swing pass to an open guy, that's what he's going to do. He's not going to hunt shots until he has to.

SGA averages 22 field goal attempts per game, and that's great because that works for his team. Tyrese averages 14, because the Pacers are premised on sharing the ball and balancing the scoring load.

Well Indy needs an alpha scorer then. Thats all there is to it. You aren't winning a tiltle without a guy who can take the game over offensively. Sorry I dont make the rules.

 

[HFCS]

The "elite" **** is so dumb. Hali is a unique basketball player that makes the Pacers and their style of play run. The Pacers wouldn't be what they are if guys were playing iso ball, and you saw that in the 2nd half last night. They thrive on ball movement and pace. What makes Hali so great is that he's going to make the right play no matter what. If the right play is a swing pass to an open guy, that's what he's going to do. He's not going to hunt shots until he has to.

SGA averages 22 field goal attempts per game, and that's great because that works for his team. Tyrese averages 14, because the Pacers are premised on sharing the ball and balancing the scoring load.

There's a weird thing about Tyrese where people can't love him or point out how he carried a team to the brink of a championship without assuming that means his fans think he's better than Jordan. I've yet to see a single person think he's in MVP discussion...but people act like he has to be MVP level or he sucks.

Is he the best pure point guard in basketball? Yes, very clear at least before this injury.
Did he become the best clutch player/scorer in basketball? Yes, quite clear this playoffs, maybe ever for one playoffs.
Is he the best passer in basketball? Very possibly, Joker and a few others are great too.

Then on top of that his defense improved from horrible to excellent on perimeter but still bad in the paint.

There's nothing not to like, nothing to be negative about, but haters need him to be some clone of Kobe and he's not that. I was a huge NBA fan during Kidd and Nash days and I cannot remember anybody bashing them because they weren't Kobe or MJ.

 

[deadeyededric]

OKC isn't keeping Jalen Williams long term. That dude is 25-30ppg anywhere else so the Thunder need to figure out how to deal him.

 

[deadeyededric]

There's a weird thing about Tyrese where people can't love him or point out how he carried a team to the brink of a championship without assuming that means his fans think he's better than Jordan. I've yet to see a single person think he's in MVP discussion...but people act like he has to be MVP level or he sucks.

Is he the best pure point guard in basketball? Yes, very clear at least before this injury.
Did he become the best clutch player/scorer in basketball? Yes, quite clear this playoffs, maybe ever for one playoffs.
Is he the best passer in basketball? Very possibly, Joker and a few others are great too.

Then on top of that his defense improved from horrible to excellent on perimeter but still bad in the paint.

There's nothing not to like, nothing to be negative about, but haters need him to be some clone of Kobe and he's not that. I was a huge NBA fan during Kidd and Nash days and I cannot remember anybody bashing them because they weren't Kobe or MJ.

Hes also the only really really good offensive player Indy has so when everyone else is playing like **** he needs to take over. Thats really my only critique of his game. This isn't college. Sometimes you just have to take over.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

Dont doubt it. Isn't everyone kind of banged up now. The people here want him to be considered elite. Well Jordan played with the flu,etc.... He didn't show up in game 5. Stars at hurt and win games hurt. You know this. Hell I love watching the guy play but he isn't quite there yet in terms of being elite.

How are we defining elite? By most metrics, SGA is a better player than Haliburton…almost without question. Haliburton had some of the best playoff performances of all time…again, almost without question. I think reasonable people could argue that these finals did not include one of the 5 best players in the league. Most would probably agree SGA is top 10. Haliburton is maybe top 25? He wasn’t even the most valuable player in the Eastern Conference Finals…though that feels dumb to me. OKC had a better record through the regular season, but Indy caught fire, and Haliburton was so clutch they were knocking off giants left and right.

Does anyone disagree with any of this?

If not, a reasonable outcome to last night’s game…if Haliburton stays on the floor…is an Indiana victory. (OKC also could have won.). OKC should (and likely does) wish he would have stayed healthy so they could have won a game 7 with the other team at its best.

 

[deadeyededric]

How are we defining elite? By most metrics, SGA is a better player than Haliburton…almost without question. Haliburton had some of the best playoff performances of all time…again, almost without question. I think reasonable people could argue that these finals did not include one of the 5 best players in the league. Most would probably agree SGA is top 10. Haliburton is maybe top 25? He wasn’t even the most valuable player in the Eastern Conference Finals…though that feels dumb to me. OKC had a better record through the regular season, but Indy caught fire, and Haliburton was so clutch they were knocking off giants left and right.

Does anyone disagree with any of this?

If not, a reasonable outcome to last night’s game…if Haliburton stays on the floor…is an Indiana victory. (OKC also could have won.). OKC should (and likely does) wish he would have stayed healthy so they could have won a game 7 with the other team at its best.

Being consistent every night. And when you need to average 25 ppg for your team to win an off night is 15-20 on a lousy %. The Pacers are ****** if Hali isn't on his game. Thats the way this league works man. Jordan was selfish as **** at crunch time. Not to say he didn't still pass the ball but sometimes you have to realize that your teammates kind of suck compared to you. So let's agree he hits big shots. Where is he in the games where they're down 10 and not in that situation to begin with? Hes almost there

 

[drmwevr08]

Well Indy needs an alpha scorer then. Thats all there is to it. You aren't winning a tiltle without a guy who can take the game over offensively. Sorry I dont make the rules.

Nah. If TH wasn't hurt they win this one this year, without a volume scorer.

 

[deadeyededric]

Nah. If TH wasn't hurt they win this one this year, without a volume scorer.

They definitely knew how to win. Im not sure they beat OKC last night unless Hali(had ne not gotten hurt) has a 30point game though. Thats a legit take though dude. They've done it all year. I loved how Indiana won games. They're gonna be a force in the East for a while. They need a big man but they've been a good franchise for a while.

 

[Clonefan32]

Well Indy needs an alpha scorer then. Thats all there is to it. You aren't winning a tiltle without a guy who can take the game over offensively. Sorry I dont make the rules.

They were literally a game away from winning a title without a guy who can take the game over offensively, and probably would have had a good shot of winning that game if he hadn't blown his Achillies.

 

[drmwevr08]

They definitely knew how to win. Im not sure they beat OKC last night unless Hali(had ne not gotten hurt) has a 30point game though. Thats a legit take though dude. They've done it all year. I loved how Indiana won games. They're gonna be a force in the East for a while. They need a big man but they've been a good franchise for a while.

Last night was certainly possible, I'm more certain if he'd not been hurt at all. That opens up 5 and 7 to likely different results. Its all conjecture, OKC gets the win, but they aren't miles better is all.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

Hes also the only really really good offensive player Indy has so when everyone else is playing like **** he needs to take over. Thats really my only critique of his game. This isn't college. Sometimes you just have to take over.

If he was an inefficient, volume scorer they wouldn’t have even got to the finals.

SGA’s relative inefficiency is masked by a.) his proclivity to get to the free throw line and b.) excellent defenders at every level (Dort, Caruse, Holmgren) to mitigate the inefficiency on the offensive end

 

[HFCS]

They were literally a game away from winning a title without a guy who can take the game over offensively, and probably would have had a good shot of winning that game if he hadn't blown his Achillies.

Saying Tyrese can’t take over a game on offense is insanely dumb, before this post season but especially after. He has flaws but getting clutch baskets for his team or running an elite offense isn’t one of them.

 

[deadeyededric]

If he was an inefficient, volume scorer they wouldn’t have even got to the finals.

SGA’s inefficiency is masked by a.) his proclivity to get to the free throw line and b.) excellent defenders at every level (Dort, Caruse, Holmgren) to mitigate the inefficiency on the offensive end

He doesn't have to be a volume scorer. But there were plenty of times even in the regular season i felt like they might have one the game if he didn't make this pass or that pass. There are times when I want the best player on the team to be selfish.

 

[Sigmapolis]

The Patriots had the 6th-ranked offense in 2001 and 4th in 2004 (12th ranked offense for the 2003 title). D was ranked 6th in 2001, 1st in 2003, and 2nd in 2004.

You all have a great misunderstanding of how Tom Brady or those Pats teams were perceived back then. He was 3rd in MVP voting in 2003 and was widely considered one of the top QBs in the league.

Brady had a pretty mediocre success rate in 2003.



I am always skeptical of individual honors (e.g., MVP, Pro Bowls, etc.) because they're voted on my people very much susceptible to the "Heisman Effect" of voting for the best player on the best team.