HUGE win and gladly eating crow...

[inCyteful]

We don't have a Brockington type who can score big while consistently getting to the basket, but I think we are making much better decisions with the ball as a team. Lipsey's intelligence on driving selectively and his ball handling/distribution has helped negate what Brockington brought, even if he's not near the scorer. Osun brings athleticism and a pick and roll presence we didn't have last year.

But since we don't have a plethora of natural scores, players with size, or an abundance of athleticism, we need to manage shot selection, foul trouble, and rebounding discrepancy. As a team, we did most of those things well but Jones (who I'm not a fan of) and Holmes forced a lot of bad shots/offense, which led to misses/turnovers and lost possessions. Jones takes way too long to make his move and either gets doubled or stupidly puts the ball on the floor (which always backfires unless he does so quickly and decisively). Holmes took way too many bad shots and ill-advised shots that nearly cost the team. The rest (by and large) were great at managing their selectiveness and shot selection.

OU made a lot of lucky shots, many that were well contested with excellent defense. Blowing a huge lead is never good but it takes a lot of resolve to weather the storm and pull out a victory (especially on the road). Great win.

Jones did fine for his 17 minutes. I know you despise him but he doesn't an excellent job of clogging up the middle and anything we get out of him on the offensive end (and his rebounds) is bonus. A factor that doesn't show up in statistics is conditioning and fatigue at the end of the game. Guys like King and Jones banging bodies on the opponent are working as Clones are consistently the stronger, more energetic team during the last 5 minutes.

Interesting your take your weak take to Holmes now. While his Shooting % wasn't ideal, a good number of those shots where well into the shot clock when we just had to get something up on the rim. Interesting you don't give him any credit for his 4 assists with only 1 Turnover and a steal remembering his a 2 guard often playing the point. I think he had exactly the kind of game we will need from him in conference play and I applaud him for being a team player, setting aside getting his best shot so others are involved. We didn't have that option with IB last year.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I ain’t gonna lie- I was pretty worried on that last 8 seconds…I think you’re a little further along than me on the Cyclone non-anxiety scale, but I’m getting there with more wins like this.

Caleb Grill makes me believe. He is playing like a mad man. I would hate to play against him. He is never not going 100%.

 

[NATEizKING]

1, 4, 6, 11, 12, 16, 19, 20, 21, 22 already lost this week. Let's climb

Add 15 and 24

 

[CoKane]

At this point just making the tournament should not be the goal. We are playing for seeding. Most brackets have us in the 5-6 seed range right now. Probably need to get to 10 league wins to stay around there.

I think with the issues of the offseason and obvious limitations on the offensive end that we should be happy with that tbh.

We're only 2 years away from 2-22. Making the tournament is still something that excites me no matter the seed after having 0 hope for it for a while

 

[CoKane]

I'm absolutely convinced we've struggled in that building because of lack of atmosphere. It sounds crazy that a flat atmosphere on the road would hurt the visitor, but when you are used to playing in a raucous atmosphere like Hilton it has to be weird to play in silence.

Id buy that. Our worst road courts are at Texas and Oklahoma for sure. I remember the Fred teams playing awful at Tech pre Beard as well

 

[Didley]

Grill and Lipsey feel like our most consistent guys. Gabe, Osun, Jones, and Holmes feel like the swing players where we play up to our potential when a couple of them are also on.

 

[bosco]

This team plays like there are 5 Ejims on the court at the same time.

 

[MyNameEhJeff]

Grill and Lipsey feel like our most consistent guys. Gabe, Osun, Jones, and Holmes feel like the swing players where we play up to our potential when a couple of them are also on.

Recently Grill has been consistent, really since he returned from missing the McNeese State game but early on in the year he was either red hot or ice cold.

Prior to last game I would've said Rob Jones was one of our most consistent guys but the OU game he didn't look so great. I still think he's improved immensely from last year, and will continue to be the improved Rob we've seen early in this season, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see another game or two where he looks like he did vs OU.

Lipsey on the other hand, I would say he's for sure been our most consistent guy the whole season. He may not be as bouncy as Tyrese Hunter or stroke it from 3 as well, but I think Lipsey is a much better pure PG than Hunter is/was.

Defense will continue to win us games and defense travels. Road wins are huge in the Big 12. Should be a fun couple of months

 

[ZRF]

Jones did fine for his 17 minutes. I know you despise him but he doesn't an excellent job of clogging up the middle and anything we get out of him on the offensive end (and his rebounds) is bonus. A factor that doesn't show up in statistics is conditioning and fatigue at the end of the game. Guys like King and Jones banging bodies on the opponent are working as Clones are consistently the stronger, more energetic team during the last 5 minutes.

Interesting your take your weak take to Holmes now. While his Shooting % wasn't ideal, a good number of those shots where well into the shot clock when we just had to get something up on the rim. Interesting you don't give him any credit for his 4 assists with only 1 Turnover and a steal remembering his a 2 guard often playing the point. I think he had exactly the kind of game we will need from him in conference play and I applaud him for being a team player, setting aside getting his best shot so others are involved. We didn't have that option with IB last year.

He and Jones were forcing a lot on the offensive end of the floor and a majority of that didn't come in low shot clock (need to force something) situations. For the season Holmes is shooting a woeful 37 % from the floor, and 34% from 3, with those only comprising roughly a quarter of his overall attempts. That means his 2 point field goal percentage his near 38% which is atrocious. Making matters worse is that Holmes far and away leads this team in 2 point shot attempts, with over 120. The next closest player is Robert Jones around 80 (who scores some easy buckets on garbage and Lipsey passes). He's literally the Jalen Rose (someone who scores mostly as a byproduct of insane volume) of our team.

The last game wasn't an isolated incident either. We don't have the abundance of offensive talent to create and score points at will; this team needs to maximize possessions and eliminate poor decision making. Holmes could increase his shooting percentage roughly 10 percent and maintain his scoring average by simply reducing volume by making poor choices. Of those 15 shots at least 4-5 of them were unnecessarily forced and 1-2 forced drives led to turnovers. He's basically the antithesis of Lipsey when it comes to decision making and picking his spots. That needs to improve (drastically).

 

[AuH2O]

He and Jones were forcing a lot on the offensive end of the floor and a majority of that didn't come in low shot clock (need to force something) situations. For the season Holmes is shooting a woeful 37 % from the floor, and 34% from 3, with those only comprising roughly a quarter of his overall attempts. That means his 2 point field goal percentage his near 38% which is atrocious. Making matters worse is that Holmes far and away leads this team in 2 point shot attempts, with over 120. The next closest player is Robert Jones around 80 (who scores some easy buckets on garbage and Lipsey passes). He's literally the Jalen Rose (someone who scores mostly as a byproduct of insane volume) of our team.

The last game wasn't an isolated incident either. We don't have the abundance of offensive talent to create and score points at will; this team needs to maximize possessions and eliminate poor decision making. Holmes could increase his shooting percentage roughly 10 percent and maintain his scoring average by simply reducing volume by making poor choices. Of those 15 shots at least 4-5 of them were unnecessarily forced and 1-2 forced drives led to turnovers. He's basically the antithesis of Lipsey when it comes to decision making and picking his spots. That needs to improve (drastically).

Realistically before Lipsey started seeking his shot more, Holmes is the guy that can actually go get a shot for himself or anybody else. Lipsey and Holmes can get their own shot. Everybody else is (or should be) largely catching and shooting. It will help having Lipsey be more aggressive getting in the lane and finishing. Holmes can now start forcing less. But we've had a ton of possessions where the option was shot clock violation or Holmes forcing something.

It's a lot less about shot selection, and a lot more about having a team that is incredibly limited in terms of ball handling.

 

[davegilbertson]

He and Jones were forcing a lot on the offensive end of the floor and a majority of that didn't come in low shot clock (need to force something) situations. For the season Holmes is shooting a woeful 37 % from the floor, and 34% from 3, with those only comprising roughly a quarter of his overall attempts. That means his 2 point field goal percentage his near 38% which is atrocious. Making matters worse is that Holmes far and away leads this team in 2 point shot attempts, with over 120. The next closest player is Robert Jones around 80 (who scores some easy buckets on garbage and Lipsey passes). He's literally the Jalen Rose (someone who scores mostly as a byproduct of insane volume) of our team.

The last game wasn't an isolated incident either. We don't have the abundance of offensive talent to create and score points at will; this team needs to maximize possessions and eliminate poor decision making. Holmes could increase his shooting percentage roughly 10 percent and maintain his scoring average by simply reducing volume by making poor choices. Of those 15 shots at least 4-5 of them were unnecessarily forced and 1-2 forced drives led to turnovers. He's basically the antithesis of Lipsey when it comes to decision making and picking his spots. That needs to improve (drastically).

I would like to see Holmes volume decrease a bit and it was trending that way after the first part of the season where we were trying to run our offense primarily through him.

Once Lipsey's emergence looked trustworthy, his FGA went down (15 FGA/gm through first 6 games; 10.34 FGA/gm next 6) until the game against OU which bounced back up to 15 FGA.

As others have pointed out, we only have so many that can get their own shot, and when things aren't happening (9 min cold stretch) or Lipsey in foul trouble, we'll likely see some more shots from Holmes/Gabe to try and get things started.

 

[ZRF]

Realistically before Lipsey started seeking his shot more, Holmes is the guy that can actually go get a shot for himself or anybody else. Lipsey and Holmes can get their own shot. Everybody else is (or should be) largely catching and shooting. It will help having Lipsey be more aggressive getting in the lane and finishing. Holmes can now start forcing less. But we've had a ton of possessions where the option was shot clock violation or Holmes forcing something.

It's a lot less about shot selection, and a lot more about having a team that is incredibly limited in terms of ball handling.

I agree with your first paragraph. He's one of the few guys on this team that can conceivably create his own shot and when he chooses his battles wisely he can be effective. But in games against major conference opponents he's shot 5-15, 3-11, 3-12, 4-12, 8-17 (UNC), 5-15. That's a dreadful 34.1% and pretty clear evidence, along with his propensity for turnovers, that he's not (consistently) picking his spots wisely. When you watch him play and visually see the shot selection and complement with stats it's painfully obvious.

My best guess is that about 25-33% of his shots are forced or poor decisions, and that be makes about 15% of those. If he would reduce by 15-20%, especially given his volume, that would give us 2-3 possessions where you could achieve a better outcome, and that's likely 2-3 points a game. In this league, where most every game will be a battle, that's very significant.

At times you could say the same thing with Kalscheur though his issue is more about recognizing when to decrease volume when he's off (rather than shot selection itself). When he's off he's REALLY off.

 

[Frak]

Realistically before Lipsey started seeking his shot more, Holmes is the guy that can actually go get a shot for himself or anybody else. Lipsey and Holmes can get their own shot. Everybody else is (or should be) largely catching and shooting. It will help having Lipsey be more aggressive getting in the lane and finishing. Holmes can now start forcing less. But we've had a ton of possessions where the option was shot clock violation or Holmes forcing something.

It's a lot less about shot selection, and a lot more about having a team that is incredibly limited in terms of ball handling.

Holmes is the only guy on the team that can create his own shot. Lipsey can get to the rim at times and is really good passing off the dribble, but we're talking a layup or two a game. I'm not going to criticize Holmes for being a little inefficient when absolutely no one else on the team can take their guy off the dribble and hit a pull up. I mean, Kalscheur can do that sometimes, but it's like 2 games a season.

Holmes does take some questionable shots, but man, someone has to shoot.

 

[ZRF]

I would like to see Holmes volume decrease a bit and it was trending that way after the first part of the season where we were trying to run our offense primarily through him.

Once Lipsey's emergence looked trustworthy, his FGA went down (15 FGA/gm through first 6 games; 10.34 FGA/gm next 6) until the game against OU which bounced back up to 15 FGA.

As others have pointed out, we only have so many that can get their own shot, and when things aren't happening (9 min cold stretch) or Lipsey in foul trouble, we'll likely see some more shots from Holmes/Gabe to try and get things started.

It's slowly emerging, but I want to see us hammer the pick and roll with Osun until teams consistently show they can stop us. We seem to be inconsistent with it without the other team forcing us out of it. Between the easy buckets and potential for fouls (Osun is an excellent FT shooter) we can pick up a lot easy points on it. If he stays out of foul trouble I think Osun should be a consistent 15-20 point scorer in the league (with Lipsey feeding him the ball).

IMHO Osun and Lipsey have the most untapped (or unused) offensive potential on the team. The latter is a freshman who is building, but Osun should be scoring 10 points a game (or more) just off pick and roll opportunities (buckets and FTs).

 

[SolarGarlic]

We are, but Miles and Baugh are freaking freight trains with the ball. This is going to be a master class in foul management if we are to pull it off, because we're going to be in foul trouble 5 minutes in. I have no doubt that we're going to need Ward and Watson to play big minutes.

They are tough and athletic, but they also take a lot of bad shots.

 

[SolarGarlic]

Recently Grill has been consistent, really since he returned from missing the McNeese State game but early on in the year he was either red hot or ice cold.

Prior to last game I would've said Rob Jones was one of our most consistent guys but the OU game he didn't look so great. I still think he's improved immensely from last year, and will continue to be the improved Rob we've seen early in this season, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see another game or two where he looks like he did vs OU.

Lipsey on the other hand, I would say he's for sure been our most consistent guy the whole season. He may not be as bouncy as Tyrese Hunter or stroke it from 3 as well, but I think Lipsey is a much better pure PG than Hunter is/was.

Defense will continue to win us games and defense travels. Road wins are huge in the Big 12. Should be a fun couple of months

I get what you're saying, but Lipsey has some hops. Probably a few inches fewer than Hunter, but we didn't downgrade much in athleticism at that position.

 

[davegilbertson]

It's slowly emerging, but I want to see us hammer the pick and roll with Osun until teams consistently show they can stop us. We seem to be inconsistent with it without the other team forcing us out of it. Between the easy buckets and potential for fouls (Osun is an excellent FT shooter) we can pick up a lot easy points on it. If he stays out of foul trouble I think Osun should be a consistent 15-20 point scorer in the league (with Lipsey feeding him the ball).

IMHO Osun and Lipsey have the most untapped (or unused) offensive potential on the team. The latter is a freshman who is building, but Osun should be scoring 10 points a game (or more) just off pick and roll opportunities (buckets and FTs).

Agree with wanting to see the two man game be our bread and butter with it leading into other sets or pop outs to Caleb, Gabe or Kunc

 

[Frak]

They are tough and athletic, but they also take a lot of bad shots.

Except for all those layups.

 

[inCyteful]

He and Jones were forcing a lot on the offensive end of the floor and a majority of that didn't come in low shot clock (need to force something) situations. For the season Holmes is shooting a woeful 37 % from the floor, and 34% from 3, with those only comprising roughly a quarter of his overall attempts. That means his 2 point field goal percentage his near 38% which is atrocious. Making matters worse is that Holmes far and away leads this team in 2 point shot attempts, with over 120. The next closest player is Robert Jones around 80 (who scores some easy buckets on garbage and Lipsey passes). He's literally the Jalen Rose (someone who scores mostly as a byproduct of insane volume) of our team.

The last game wasn't an isolated incident either. We don't have the abundance of offensive talent to create and score points at will; this team needs to maximize possessions and eliminate poor decision making. Holmes could increase his shooting percentage roughly 10 percent and maintain his scoring average by simply reducing volume by making poor choices. Of those 15 shots at least 4-5 of them were unnecessarily forced and 1-2 forced drives led to turnovers. He's basically the antithesis of Lipsey when it comes to decision making and picking his spots. That needs to improve (drastically).

You do bring the strong Hyperbole. I like it - Atrocious, woeful, insane, poor, unnecessarily.

You do bring to light why this team is performing so poorly - I think you have your finger on how to fix things.

Unfortunately, and if you will allow me, your idiotic critic of what your erroneously think is a problem for this team is drenched in blatantly false assumptions and a complete lack of even the most elementary understanding of what makes this system work. There is a complete absence of data supporting your claim that Holmes shots don't come late in the shot clock. And for Jones, you incessantly hammer on a player that accounted for <10% of the minutes played in the game as a problem with the team.

What you so obviously fail to grasp is that any college BB team, especially this one, need to have a significant physical presence in the lane, on both Offense and Defense. There are billions of players that have stat lines that you so gratuitously degrade. Coaches continue to use them on the team because, well, what appears to be inconceivable reality for you is that, how do I put this, basketball is a team sport.

All ridiculous cynicism aside - would it be nice if Holmes and Jones shot 60% from the field, of course but I'll bet you 2 Trillion bucks that TJ wouldn't take that if ittook away from their energy, physicality and team work..

 

[NENick]

Sorry, I've had a couple of adult beverages.
ZRF, you're an idiot.